Who the fudge does Akatosh think he is? : V - Skyrim

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:50 pm

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the lore?

I like the storylines in each game, but the overall lore is kind of blahhh. Its starting to get Warcraft Syndrome - too many different groups with their own histories and stuff going on its becoming completely impossible to keep track of it all.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:25 pm

Akatosh and Alduin are one in the same, the god of time. However, they have come to be viewed differently by different cultures. The Nords, much in vain of true Norse mythology, take a very dim view of cosmic existence. They believe that time is an enemy, that all things come to an end. Much like in Hindu cultures, Alduin is the one who moves time and sets things in motion, but ultimately is the one who also end them to bring about the beginning of the next kalpa.

The Imperials, being the smug bastards that they are, think that time is their ally. Akatosh represents permanence, lineage, and the eternal glory of the empire. They conveniently erased the world-destroying part from the textbooks because they're so hyped up on propaganda and religious fanaticism that is somehow less developed than it was in Vvardenfell.

I like the storylines in each game, but the overall lore is kind of blahhh. Its starting to get Warcraft Syndrome - too many different groups with their own histories and stuff going on its becoming completely impossible to keep track of it all.

Warcraft's lore was just fine, until Warcraft III when Blizzard started making it a point for every other main character to turn evil and join the other side. :confused:

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:23 am

Well... I have to agree that " Oh, lol another dragon break " would be a bit lame. Seeing as V is also supposed to be the last of the prophecies...
Maybe Skyrim is going to be the last game in the series ? Personally, I think it would be beautiful to end the story in a grand way, and let it rest - like a good tv-series - you don't want it to go on until it gets bad...
I don't think they'll do that, though. There is probably too much money to be made because fans want moar. ( And of course I would buy TES : VI like a true really devoted fan anyway )

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:48 pm

].
How is Akatosh three people at the same time?

The same way that different cultures have different names for the same "god" in our world.

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:03 am

Wasn't it confirmed Akatosh and Alduin were the same people?

No it was confirmed, there was a book that loosely associated the gods of one pantheon with another even though they have nothing in common except they are both dragons. That's what is so great about Elder Scrolls lore, they are written from the point of view of people in the world and thus can be incorrect due to the point of view, just like in RL.

"congratulations, you've taken your first steps into a larger world."

Here's how it goes: Akatosh and Alduin are both the Dragon God of Time. Because Imperials believe he is one way, he is that way, and because Nords believe one way, he is that way too, at the same time, even though they're mutually exclusive. That's just how godhood works in TES

Well that's just what the non-canonical writings of Kirkbride make them out to be, even though it is over-sensational and gets to becoming ridiculous with the omnipotent gods which the gods of TES are not.

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:12 am

Elves just want to end up as gods in the next kalpa, and remove Glorious Mankind from being possible.

What's a kalpa ? A cycle of time ? Just found the term in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fight-one-eating-birth-dagon.

Very cool stuff, by the way, that text. And fun. :lmao: I do not know what's the status of these "obscure" texts in Lore - real-Lore or Joke-Lore - but damn this sounds like something that could be expanded on, what with the role of Dagon in Oblivion : a kind of way of tying both games together.

"Do you even know what would HAPPEN if that happened, my dying and being unable to eat and the kalpa left to run forever?" : that could be highly interesting, regarding the main quest.

Doesn't sound so "let's kill the evil dragons" now, does it.

I wonder who's the Greedy Man. Lorkhan ? *edit* Yup.

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:58 am

I've came to the reality that I just won't understand unless it's simplified to me by a dev x).

He's asking the same question as I, how could he be the world eater and the world saviour ?? None of it makes sense.

Why not?

He saved the world, but with conditions. Once the Elder Scrolls came true he'd come back and he's be pissed as far as I understand. How does that not make sense?

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:06 am

What's a kalpa ? A cycle of time ? Just found the term in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fight-one-eating-birth-dagon.

Very cool stuff, by the way, that text. And fun. :lmao: I do not know what's the status of these "obscure" texts in Lore - real-Lore or Joke-Lore - but damn this sounds like something that could be expanded on, what with the role of Dagon in Oblivion : a kind of way of tying both games together.

"Do you even know what would HAPPEN if that happened, my dying and being unable to eat and the kalpa left to run forever?" : that could be highly interesting, regarding the main quest.

Doesn't sound so "let's kill the evil dragons" now, does it.

I wonder who's the Greedy Man. Lorkhan ?

Like you said, they are just obscure texts that aren't canonical, especially seeing as how Mehrunes Dagon is a Daedric Prince and not a leaper demon <_< Kalpa is a real world term that means a variable time span that could mean anything from a life-span of a typical human to an eon. Kalpa only showed up once in any real texts and that was Kalpa's in the sense of the past lives of Pelinal. But you see people that worship the Imperial library spout Kalpa everywhere and say that time is cyclical and the world is destroyed and rebuilt multiple times but can't be true from what we know of how of how Mundus was created. Also we know that time is linear and thus the world couldn't be reborn over and over again. That is just the point of view of the nords that the world is a cycle that must be destroyed over and over again even though none of the other races have that belief and that we know that time is linear and the world has never been destroyed before and rebuilt by Alduin.

He saved the world, but with conditions. Once the Elder Scrolls came true he'd come back and he's be pissed as far as I understand. How does that not make sense?

Because there are holes in this theory that Akatosh wants to destroy the world at this time. Why would Akatosh be pissed? Why would Akatosh destroy the world he and the other divines sacrificed so much for such as a lot of their power and their immortality. Why would he come around and destroy those whose worship give the divines power? It just doesn't make sense.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:00 am

Like you said, they are just obscure texts that aren't canonical, especially seeing as how Mehrunes Dagon is a Daedric Prince and not a leaper demon <_< Kalpa is a real world term that means a variable time span that could mean anything from a life-span of a typical human to an eon. Kalpa only showed up once in any real texts and that was Kalpa's in the sense of the past lives of Pelinal.

Aaah, too bad.

I really didn't mind about the "leaper demon" bit, too - this reads like folktales, where the great are often presented in joke form, I suppose to laugh out the fear(reminded me of Anansi stories, really)- it never means there isn't a grain of truth in it.

But if there's no echo in actual game-books, you're right.

But you see people that worship the Imperial library spout Kalpa everywhere and say that time is cyclical and the world is destroyed and rebuilt multiple times but can't be true from what we know of how of how Mundus was created. Also we know that time is linear and thus the world couldn't be reborn over and over again. That is just the point of view of the nords that the world is a cycle that must be destroyed over and over again even though none of the other races have that belief and that we know that time is linear and the world has never been destroyed before and rebuilt by Alduin.

Would we know if it had ?

Honestly, I only like it cause, well, I get it. Like beliefs in antiquity, that the time was made of "ages", at the end of which there was much catastrophes and miracles, until the new age began. In some beliefs, the old one was consumed in fire for the new one to appear. Only that time was often considered critical : you had to do things right to kick in the new age. There's tons of interesting stuff in Greek / Etruscan philosophies, and in Roman texts. *

I don't know. There was some talk about Lorkhan sort of tricking Alduin to create Mundus. I kinda like that while it created linear time, it might not just be a good thing in the end - world gets old and crumbly (I mean, look at the mess at the time of Skyrim). So Alduin trying to eat the world, might not be such a clear-cut thing - leave everyone you care about be engulfed in destruction, or leave the world to rot. Hehe. Brings some grey to the main quest - and ties to the whole Dagon thing : performed an act of destruction in Oblivion due to some obscure thing with Alduin (mirrored in the joke in the text), so to facilitate the task of Alduin. Or something.

Because there are holes in this theory that Akatosh wants to destroy the world at this time. Why would Akatosh be pissed? Why would Akatosh destroy the world he and the other divines sacrificed so much for such as a lot of their power and their immortality. Why would he come around and destroy those whose worship give the divines power? It just doesn't make sense.

Alduin is the "chief villain", apparently, and it's pretty solid that he is at least a version of Akatosh (doesn't seem far fetched, if he's a representation of time. Death svcks, but you need things to die to have new things to appear. Negative/positive aspect of time.). So that much seems to be in the game anyway.

None to solid on the covenant with Alessia - what's certain is that it doesn't apply anymore. :unsure:

And before you explode, I know I'm talking through my hat with little basis on Lore anyway.

I'm just having fun. Doesn't matter much, I suspect a lot of Lore beliefs and speculations are bent by what you choose to believe. :lmao:

There's so much cool stuff in Lore that remains only in the background of the game. :mellow: Pity.

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:22 pm

That could be! But didn't god just destroy the people of that region?

He destroyed everyone except Noah's family.

Meh, that would be fun if we thought that it's Alduin coming to destroy the world, but then it would reveal that it's just Tiger-dragon invades Tamriel, and Nord's religion is still stupid :thumbsup:

But there's no way for it to happen, at least because the dragons we've seen are black, and Tosh Raka is tiger-coloured, so if he managed to turn his subjects into dragons, they would be yellow and striped :nod:

The excerpt I read of the GI said that the dragon (At least the one in the article) looked as though it was made of stone because it blended with the surrounding ruins as our player ran from it.

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:37 pm

Aaah, too bad.

I really didn't mind about the "leaper demon" bit, too - this reads like folktales, where the great are often presented in joke form, I suppose to laugh out the fear(reminded me of Anansi stories, really)- it never means there isn't a grain of truth in it.

I'd advise you not to listen to him.

Think it's a coincidence that this text was released months before Skyrim was announced? It was written by a contract writer ex-dev who is deeply involved with the ongoing writing process. Everyone but Sleign doesn't seem to care about the digital format in which Bethesda employees release texts. Multiple developers, including Ken Rolston the Design Head of Oblivion, have done so.

The story goes that Dagon was a 'Leaper Demon' before being eaten by Alduin long ago.

I don't know. There was some talk about Lorkhan sort of tricking Alduin to create Mundus. I kinda like that while it created linear time, it might not just be a good thing in the end - world gets old and crumbly (I mean, look at the mess at the time of Skyrim). So Alduin trying to eat the world, might not be such a clear-cut thing - leave everyone you care about be engulfed in destruction, or leave the world to rot. Hehe. Brings some grey to the main quest - and ties to the whole Dagon thing : performed an act of destruction in Oblivion due to some obscure thing with Alduin (mirrored in the joke in the text), so to facilitate the task of Alduin. Or something.

You're right on the money.

Alduin is the "chief villain", apparently, and it's pretty solid that he is at least a version of Akatosh (doesn't seem far fetched, if he's a representation of time. Death svcks, but you need things to die to have new things to appear. Negative/positive aspect of time.). So that much seems to be in the game anyway.

None to solid on the covenant with Alessia - what's certain is that it doesn't apply anymore. :unsure:

Alduin is perfectly capable of having opposing interests vis a vis Akatosh. Personally I believe that Martin renewed the Covenant, because I can't see any other way of keeping the Daedra out.

There's so much cool stuff in Lore that remains only in the background of the game. :mellow: Pity.

Very true. In the case of Oblivion, the plot makes absolutely no sense unless you dig into that background, and that means out-of-game texts.

Because there are holes in this theory that Akatosh wants to destroy the world at this time. Why would Akatosh be pissed? Why would Akatosh destroy the world he and the other divines sacrificed so much for such as a lot of their power and their immortality. Why would he come around and destroy those whose worship give the divines power? It just doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense. We'll let you know how if you'll listen.

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:29 am

Three at the same time? Sounds like a very familiar and very real religion to me... but enough of that. You can't create one thing without destroying another. To create room for a city in a forest, one must destroy a part of it. You build a barn of wood by chopping down trees. You probably get the idea.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:40 am

Think it's a coincidence that this text was released months before Skyrim was announced?

:blink: It was ?

I looked for release-date, didn't find it. That's pretty awesome.

Alduin is perfectly capable of having opposing interests vis a vis Akatosh.

Duality/different aspects within the same being. Seen that before, didn't we.

Personally I believe that Martin renewed the Covenant, because I can't see any other way of keeping the Daedra out.

D'oh. You're right of course. If not, why the bloody gates asploded. This was the whole point.

Very true. In the case of Oblivion, the plot makes absolutely no sense unless you dig into that background, and that means out-of-game texts.

Oblivion main quest was a bit of "okay, shiny self-sacrificing hero vs. angry red giant" until I read a bit of Akatosh. That "1st fight", it adds a lot of interesting questions.

And Shivering Isles too ! I wasn't the least bit interested by the plot till recently, I read a long interesting post of Lady Nerevar wrapping it all up, what with the mantling thing. Then it made sense.

There was a Lore vs gameplay debate going on earlier this week. I'd say if the gameplay is the meat, then Lore is definitely the salt, sugar and spices. Try to eat without those...

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:36 am

Going to cross-post this from the lore forum, cause it applies.

First of: gods are real.

When we look at different versions of the same god, we are looking at different interpretations of one concept (the dragon god of time, for example). Alduin is not a re-named version of Akatosh (as is the case with Artemis/Mercury) but rather a different culture's view of the god. The Imperials think Time is on their side (an idea that comes to them from the elves Auriel), the Nords think of time as an adversary. Regardless of how you view it, it is still Time.

Thats pretty simple, right? Thats all you really need to know. Lets complicate things for the sake of it.

Because mortals are a degenerate form of gods, we have a pretty good view of what happened during the creation of the mortal plane, a time known as the Dawn Era. Each culture has its own views of the Dawn, but they share the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth. This framework can be taken as the 'truth' of creation, with each peoples seeing it differently due to their cultural lens.

The biggest characteristic of the Dawn is that Time was not yet stable. Things were changing form and undoing themselves, so we can't know which culture has it 'right.' Turns out they all do. Mythopoeia (the influence of mortal beliefs over truth) is a major force in Tamriel, and because of it the myths of each culture did happen exactly as described. Essentially the unlimited godly form was split into parts for each culture, each still being the god but each being slightly different depending on the culture's beliefs. Once Time crystalized and we were stuck with one reality instead of many, Akatosh/Alduin/Auriel were combined into one god with multiple 'personalities'.

Hope that summary makes sense.

Lets take a look at the Dragon God of Time in particular.

The Nordic Alduin is both the bringer forth and destroyer of the world. Auriel hates the mortal world he was forced to create, and his followers aim to destroy it. Satakal is constantly eating himself. Akatosh is the only version of him who is not bound to destroy the world. In fact, he is "endurance, invincibility, and everlasting legitimacy" to the Imperials, which kinda goes against the whole Time thing. Why is this? Other than a cultural change, its probably a byproduct of all the mythical meddling Cyrod has undergone. The pact with Alessia bound Akatosh(/Lorkhan) to the Empire. The Marukhathi tried to wipe elven influence out of Akatosh, leading to a new Dawn era and who knows what else. The emperors were Dragonborn. Having a miniature version of the cosmic wheel as your capital probably doesn't hurt, either.

Oblivion main quest was a bit of "okay, shiny self-sacrificing hero vs. angry red giant" until I read a bit of Akatosh. That "1st fight", it adds a lot of interesting questions.

Check out the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept, if you haven't already. It wraps everything into a little neat bow and helps to make sense of Skyrim's Alduin problem, too.

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:39 pm

More non-canonical writings.... Oh well, I've said it before I believe that Alduin is Akatosh from my interpretations of the lore as a whole while others believe that he is. We will see in November and I'm tired of doing the dance. The only reason I ever post to oppose it is because people say it as fact when it isn't because their theories are based on obscure texts in the Imperial Library which aren't established lore.

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:14 am

I think Akatosh just has schizophrenia, Alduin is his other, darker personality.

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:05 am

Going to cross-post this from the lore forum, cause it applies.

Okay. I'll stick with the first part for now, I guess.

The time-crystallisation thing is a bit difficult for me now. Although, it fits for a deity. No-one said we're talking one single entity whose being and means are easily comprehensible by human mind, here.

Just a thing : the Greek and Roman gods, that's not exactly re-naming : more like merging. You've got a war god, I've got a war-god, let's say it's the same (didn't do it with only the Greeks gods either). The Roman kinda didn't have much stories nor god images to go by anyway. Plus I suppose it helps maintain an empire, not going in the face of people's gods like that. That more visible in some Gods, like Saturn and Kronos. You kinda sense the first used to be an agricultural god of sort before the merging. And the story of Golden Age turns up different in each culture : whereas Kronos got rightfully his ass kicked and humans became irreversibly tainted, Romans have more ideas that it can actually come back - it's tied it up with the emperors personal mythos). Just saying, although I get it's not like in Tamriel, it's a bit closer.

Check out the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept, if you haven't already. It wraps everything into a little neat bow and helps to make sense of Skyrim's Alduin problem, too.

Going to, gladly. By the way, how exactly are these texts born ? Does the devs post them on the Imperial Library or something ? And the date of adding to the Library is close to the date of writing ?

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:14 am

More non-canonical writings.... Oh well, I've said it before I believe that Alduin is Akatosh from my interpretations of the lore as a whole while others believe that he is. We will see in November and I'm tired of doing the dance. The only reason I ever post to oppose it is because people say it as fact when it isn't because their theories are based on obscure texts in the Imperial Library which aren't established lore.

Everything in Nu-Mantia is supported by stuff in official lore. I'd rather quote one text than half of Vivec's Sermons, all of the Mythic Dawn Commentaries, the Infernal City, Alduin's Wall, and a dozen other texts.

Just a thing : the Greek and Roman gods, that's not exactly re-naming : more like merging.

Yea, theres really no way to talk theology without simplifying stuff

Real world mythology is even more confusing and contradictory than TES mythos. Atum-Ra, anyone?

Going to, gladly. By the way, how exactly are these texts born ? Does the devs post them on the Imperial Library or something ? And the date of adding to the Library is close to the date of writing ?

Most texts are posted on these very forums. MK posted two new ones recently, both relating to Skyrim. One is an http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1159381-dominion-prism-textract-partial/ and the other is a http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1160383-shor-son-of-shor/. The later is full of cyclical Kalpa and multi-faceted gods. The library was overhauled this summer, so the dates on there do not mean anything. A couple of the obscure texts, Nu-Mantia among them, are preserved in their http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives in our archive. You can track down the dates of some of the others by using archive.org to check TIL's news.

As for how they are born, it depends. Some are expanded version of texts found in game. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/imperial-census-daedra-lords was supposed to be included in the Pocket Guide to the Empire, but had to be cut for length. Some are purely fun, posted around special occasions (Christmas and Kurt's birthday, usually). Most of the others we don't really know much about.

» Tue May 17, 2011 4:06 am

More non-canonical writings.... Oh well, I've said it before I believe that Alduin is Akatosh from my interpretations of the lore as a whole while others believe that he is. We will see in November and I'm tired of doing the dance. The only reason I ever post to oppose it is because people say it as fact when it isn't because their theories are based on obscure texts in the Imperial Library which aren't established lore.

See, you're acting like the Alduin thing is some big reveal and that there's going to be a revelation in the game. There's not. It's a mundane, well-established idea. Old, old lore. And we're not just pulling this from one Obscure Text. This theology stuff is part of Official Elder Scrolls Lore 101. You can educate yourself on that bit even with irrational canonicity handicaps in place, so put the effort in and we'll see you on release day.

Does the devs post them on the Imperial Library or something ? And the date of adding to the Library is close to the date of writing ?

The forums are the usual mode of release. A lot of texts released here have showed up in games in one form or another later on. Developers also post fragments in-character as a way of helping people along in figuring things out. This is usually insight or verification rather than original information and verifiable facts.

I'm not sure how you find out when texts were added to the library. Bear in mind that the site was completely overhauled, so they all have pretty much the same posting date. The Obscure Texts are listed in chronological order, so you can sort of puzzle it out. Nu-Mantia came quite a bit before Oblivion, and the Aldudagga must have been a year ago. There are some archived forum threads as well, which would display posting dates.

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:24 am

Most texts are posted on these very forums. MK posted two new ones recently, both relating to Skyrim. One is an Thalmor official document and the other is a Nordic view of the Dawn. The later is full of cyclical Kalpa and multi-faceted gods. The library was overhauled this summer, so the dates on there do not mean anything. A couple of the obscure texts, Nu-Mantia among them, are preserved in their original thread form in our archive. You can track down the dates of some of the others by using archive.org to check TIL's news.

The forums are the usual mode of release. A lot of texts released here have showed up in games in one form or another later on. Developers also post fragments in-character as a way of helping people along in figuring things out. This is usually insight or verification rather than original information and verifiable facts.

I had no idea they were posting stuff like that on the forums, and still do. This is pretty awesome.

... And pretty lame of me not to know that since the time I hang round here.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:33 am

Meh, that would be fun if we thought that it's Alduin coming to destroy the world, but then it would reveal that it's just Tiger-dragon invades Tamriel, and Nord's religion is still stupid :thumbsup:

But there's no way for it to happen, at least because the dragons we've seen are black, and Tosh Raka is tiger-coloured, so if he managed to turn his subjects into dragons, they would be yellow and striped :nod:

Wouldn't Tosh Raka oppose Alduin, considering that he probably doesn't want the world destroyed?

It's just a gut feeling, and I could be very wrong about this, but I think a dragon break is small time compared to what Alduin intends. I think what we're seeing is the potential end of a kalpa, or world cycle, and if Alduin suceeds, then the world of Tamriel as we know it will be gone, and something completely different will take it's place. The dragon breaks only seem to change things on a local level. They don't change everything, only certain things.

Here's a thought to stir up the pot. What if we're not meant to stop Alduin, but to help him?

If we help Alduin, wouldn't the world be over? And we'd start again..

Akatosh can do whatever it wants. The King Divine isn't held back by the pact that he made with Alessia anymore.

Yeah

How do we know Alduin is not to Akatosh what Jyggalag is to Sheogorath? another aspect of him that appears when something needs tohappen, and right now, what needs to happen is another rightful heir needs to climb to the throne and prove himself. maybe this trial is Akatosh changing to Alduin so a dragonborn hero may arise, defeat him, earn the land's respect and light the dragonfires anew.

That's good thinking! But it's not like Alduin is just going to roll over..

Guys, just because he was a 'good guy' in one game, doesn't make him a 'good guy' in another. Only in Hollywood, and other badly written things is stuff that simple. In order to do what he wants, Akatosh/Alduin needs to destroy the Amulet of Kings, I reckon he tricked Martin into destroying it. Sure, he 'saved the day', but I think it was for his personal means.

Also, look at Morrowind, Vivec, ain't that simple a character (in my opinion, the best character in any video game ever). He seems to be a good guy, but he's NOT REALLY is he. Also, you being the Nerevarine an everything, and destroying the heat thus taking away Vivec's and the rest of the Tribunals power. Guided by Azura, when you actually look at it, you are just a pawn in a Daedric Prince having revenge against Vivec and the Tribunal.

How did he convince the Mythic Dawn to do their stuff? Just curious..

Check out this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157744-akatoshalduin-in-skyrim/.

Thanks, but did Akatosh just get lucky with the Mythic Dawn or did he plan that out too?

Ysmir is the Nordic name for Talos, which was the emperor Tiber Septim who withstood the voice of the Greybeards and heard their prophecy. He was perceived as a dragon after doing so, however, according to myth. He was the emperor who united the empire and started the Third Era.

Alduin is the Nordic equivalent of Akatosh, the dragon god of time. (In Nordic mythology, the one who eats the world, and can eat away the age of someone until they are younger than they were.)

Maybe we'll see Talos as a graybeard, just a thought

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:15 am

sure hope we get a chance to kill the nine divines, it would make such an epic quest.

Weird..

dude..wut... no. the entire earth. Noah and his family were all that was left. thats y he needed 2 of every animal.

But the world was corrupt back then, the ES world seems anything but corrupt/sinful

from wut i know vivec is possibly mephala is i remember correctly. sheogorath is jyggalag. lorkhan is either good or evil depending on the people u ask. so alduin is akatosh im sure. but like any god gives and takes. in this case he may have good intentions for destroying everything. its his job and it keeps everything stable. like a forrest fire really. aand if vivec might really be a daedra then tosh raka culd be an aedra. i dont have much time to talk all this out. im in math class lol

Well... I have to agree that " Oh, lol another dragon break " would be a bit lame. Seeing as V is also supposed to be the last of the prophecies...
Maybe Skyrim is going to be the last game in the series ? Personally, I think it would be beautiful to end the story in a grand way, and let it rest - like a good tv-series - you don't want it to go on until it gets bad...
I don't think they'll do that, though. There is probably too much money to be made because fans want moar. ( And of course I would buy TES : VI like a true really devoted fan anyway )

Hopefully not!

The same way that different cultures have different names for the same "god" in our world.

But these gods physically manifest themselves too, at least Alduin and Tosh Ra'ka do

Like you said, they are just obscure texts that aren't canonical, especially seeing as how Mehrunes Dagon is a Daedric Prince and not a leaper demon <_< Kalpa is a real world term that means a variable time span that could mean anything from a life-span of a typical human to an eon. Kalpa only showed up once in any real texts and that was Kalpa's in the sense of the past lives of Pelinal. But you see people that worship the Imperial library spout Kalpa everywhere and say that time is cyclical and the world is destroyed and rebuilt multiple times but can't be true from what we know of how of how Mundus was created. Also we know that time is linear and thus the world couldn't be reborn over and over again. That is just the point of view of the nords that the world is a cycle that must be destroyed over and over again even though none of the other races have that belief and that we know that time is linear and the world has never been destroyed before and rebuilt by Alduin.

Because there are holes in this theory that Akatosh wants to destroy the world at this time. Why would Akatosh be pissed? Why would Akatosh destroy the world he and the other divines sacrificed so much for such as a lot of their power and their immortality. Why would he come around and destroy those whose worship give the divines power? It just doesn't make sense.

Exactly! What is wrong with Nirn that Akatosh wants a remake?

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:55 pm

Well, the tiger-dragon is "mantling" or pretty much copying Akatosh, hence the similar name.

I'm pretty sure Alduin and Akatosh are different aspects of the same thing. Think Hinduism, it was a big inspiration for all this funky divine stuff.

I'm no lore buff, so wait for one of them to post.

I like this explanation best, the tiger-dragon is just copying.

P.S: Cho'gath

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:37 pm

I like this explanation best, the tiger-dragon is just copying.

P.S: Cho'gath

How did he manage to become a dragon and rule an entire nation though? Not to mention a dragon bigger than Alduin..

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:44 am

If we help Alduin, wouldn't the world be over? And we'd start again..

Yes. Exactly. Mad, isn't it? A chance to begin everything again. A clean slate.