Historical argument is completely invalid for game which takes place in alternative history, don't you think? At the time of divergence of Fallout universe from ours, there was no assault rifle in US service so there's nothing F4 assault rifle should regress/progress from. Term assault rifle (in modern meaning) was not even in use in US army so there's not even reason why assault rifle in Fallout universe should mean the same thing as in ours.

Cooling of the barbel of automatic weapons is perfectly valid technical design feature since barrels of automatic guns do overheat excessively. Cooling using fluid is more effective then using air and allows for longer sustained fire and prolongs life of the barrel. It comes at the price of increased weight, but I ques that's not a problem for a army which fields power armour.

If it would be right there, you would have no problem explaining it. Which you are unable thus far.

+1 Some people need to learn more about FO4 Lore before making threads and ranting about outdated weapons

bethesda

NV weapons remind me of Fallout 2 weapons a lot -they make little sense lore wise and and even less game play wise (such as energy weapons being no more effective then kinetic weapons in NV ...why the hell would somebody bother to invent and produce technology which is no better then one already in use?). Which makes me think I know who the primary suspect for that is ...you can probably remember who was on the list of designers of both of them and not any other Fallout game.

You know, I had a response set up for some of the people who suddenly decide to yawp their "NEW VEGAS svckS! BETHESDA FOREVER!" opinions, I realise trying to properly discuss the weapon system is fruitless because of all the people thinking any criticism of any side is a pissing contest. I wasn't saying Bethesda svcks and I specifically discuss the weapon system and suddenly people are flocking to defend Bethesda over an area they do need improvement in. I won't wast my time responding to uninformed posts that announce they don't know guns and they're just here to play 'Old Fans vs New Fans' slugging match (Pro-Tip: I started the series with Fallout 3, so get off your high horses.). To the people ACTUALLY discussing the weapon system like civilised advlts I will respond to.

I want the Xuanlong again!

Wow this guy is so thick it's unbelievable.....so many valid points, yet he blindly and illogically disregards them. Can't argue with someone like that.

What it sounds like is, he thinks it looks cool, so he doesn't want people criticizing it.

A WWI style gun being developed after 1960 that has long been inferior to the 1950s designs of guns and has no reason to exist, especially as the standard assault rifle, somehow makes sense to him.

Actually you are wrong on just about all counts.

There is a background to the design of the water cooled machine gun, and it was not ever design to be a shoulder fired weapon. Sorry, but that's just an objective truth.

The time split does not occur until the 1950's and early 60's. That includes the design of the AK 47, M-14, and M-16. It's an objective truth, there is no room for speculation. All of those designs (minus the M-14) were in previous games. You're wrong plain and simple.

Assault rifle or battle rifle...it matters very little in this conversation, although I used both names depending on how deep into weaponry anyone might be who reads this thread.

Water cooling came with a much higher price than just weight. The water was not static. During heavy use, the water would boil away via steam (added with powder smoke, it made for a hell of a target signature), then it would have to be replaced by attaching a hose and having a water source...an additional problem that is logistical. I suppose that was efficient...in the early 20th century...but certainly not by the 1950's. The weight was SUBSTANTIAL, it was never chambered in lightweight, hi-velocity rounds like the 5.56, and it was a crew served weapon! Meaning it required more than one soldier to effectively operate it. You think it efficient...OK. I don't know too many soldiers who would ever agree with you. Air cooling is much more battle effective. Give me an M-60 any day for a machine gun (which also happened to be designed in 1957).

Hey, you like the FO4 assault rifle? Good for you. You think it looks cool, more power to you. Just don't pretend its logical or somehow more efficient. It would make a poor assault rifle for your average grunt who would have to shoulder that pig, maintain it, and try to find enough ammo to feed it. Power armor was rare even by pre-war standards. That it fires 5.56 is laughable as I said, when all you need is a 6 pound rifle that it much more accurate at longer distances, is far easier and reflexive to fire, and a snap to maintain. The FO4 "assault" rifle is regressive and should have not been included, except for the aesthetics of using it with power armor. That is the only reason.

You are fully welcome to continue banging your head on the wall, but you are convincing no one of it being anything other than an aesthetic or "artful" inclusion. Mechanically and historically, it's as ridiculous as left hand chambering for shoulder fired rifles by right handed firers. Lugging around a 14 lb POS, when I can have the exact same velocity, knock down power, and rate of fire, for half the weight...eye rolling.

Had they merely labeled it a "machine gun" and chambered it in something like .308, that would have been fine. I could live with that. Then they might have given us a proper assault rifle. You have your answers. If you choose to ignore them, then you are basing your position on something other than facts.

You're probably right....they've studiously avoided adding any of the improvements from NV, such as ammo crafting, the companion wheel, and faction rep. It's too bad, really.

I beg to differ....with ammo crafting my .357 revolvers (Lucky and/or a Police Pistol), hunting shotgun, and suppressed .308 sniper rifle took me all the way to Hoover Dam. Until they nerfed .308 twice, I could take down Lanius with two .308 slugs to the face. After that, it took five. As far as the AMR, I hated that thing and only used it maybe twice. Back in the day, some of us were begging for a Sharps or Browning Hi-Wall in .45-70 for some real Old School sniping but they didn't listen.

devoted fan syndrome.....thought I got away from that when I walked away from Destiny but sadly, I was wrong. For some reason a lot of devs of series that have been traditionally gun heavy are moving away from that....a good example is MGS V. The customization options didn't hide the takeaways, such as real world and iconic series weapons, the freedom to choose your carry weapons, and the abilty to change the selector mode on select fire weapons. Fallout seems to be going the same way...a customization scheme that is level based and in the beginning usually involves restoring a mutilated weapon just so it can perform it's original designed role, and the deletion of the majority of iconic weapons...except for the heavy weapons...from the lineup. It irritated me in NV when they didn't have the combat shottie, R-91 and Chinese Assault Rifle, ect....but they at least offered goodies to make up for it. In FO4 half the time you have to rebarrel and restock any gun you find before you can use it. The pipe-guns were a good idea, but they even stick them in Pre-War caches, which is beyond ridiculous.

Well said....one thing though, if you were defending a static position, a Maxim or Vickers-Maxim was murderously effective in a way few modern machineguns can match, but of course for every other scenario the M-60 would be better.

If they renamed it a LMG, made it a bit larger, come full auto out of the box, and chambered it for .308 it would be fine....but it's a pathetic 5.56 semi-auto rifle. I just dump them into storage when I find them....eventually I'll mod them and issue them to my settlers.

Actually you are wrong on just about all counts.

There is a background to the design of a GUN ...and ques what? It was not ever design to be a shoulder fired weapon.

Sorry, but that's just an objective truth. Your point? Things which are not designed hand held can not became hand held through development? Really???

Objective truth is that split occurred sometime between 1945 and 1961 (exact date is not specified by lore). M16 came to service in 1962. M14 is not assault rifle. AK-47 is Russian weapon and newer was in US service. It did not became available in USA before 1981 ...and then only as Finish AK copy Valmet M-62S.

You're wrong plain and simple.

Assault rifle is not battle rifle. Not even in Fallout alternative universe.

Everything comes at the price, air cooling included. But whatever the price was, it was good enough for mass produced weapons used in war.

Rifle was also newer chambered for laser beam. Again, comparing to our timeline is completely irrelevant. That something happened in our timeline does not men it happened in Fallout one as well and vice versa. That applies to question of efectivity as well. That we made some design choice that proved to be more effective does not mean that people in Fallout universe did that as well. They still are using vacuum tubes happily even if microprocessors are more effective. On the other hand they designed micro fusion battery powered laser rifle while we still use primitive assault rifles in 5.56. how about that?

Hey, you dislike the FO4 assault rifle? Good for you. You think it looks crap, more power to you. Just don't pretend its not logical or somehow less efficient. It would make a good assault rifle for your average grunt who would have used power armour to shoulder it, nuclear powered robots to maintain it, and nuclear powered cars to bring enough ammo to feed it. Power armor might have being more rare by pre war standards but so were assault rifles who were used to equip only units with power armour. That it fires 5.56 is appropriate for assault rifle as I said, when you add liquid cooling of barrel rifle will weight more then air cooled, but it will compensate for increased weight and more difficult maintenance with increased firerate and durability of the barrel. The FO4 "assault" rifle is progressive and justly included, not mentioning it's aesthetics of using it with power armor. That is bonus reason.

You are fully welcome to continue banging your head on the wall, but you are convincing no one of it being anything other than your personal preference. Mechanically and historically, it's proven and mass produced, battle tested design. Lugging around a 14 lb POS, when I have suit of power armour which can easily handle miniguns is well worth increased firepower and durability of weapon.

Had they merely labeled it a "machine gun" and chambered it in something like .308, that would have been fine too. But they did not, they have given us a beautifully designed assault rifle which fits in to Fallout universe more then copy of M4 ever would and you will live with that. You have answers to your answers. If you choose to ignore them, then you are basing your position on something other than facts.

You know, I could forgive the lack of a CAR in New Vegas because there's the possible point that they were Chinese weapons and for infiltrators and Vegas wouldn't likely be as strategic an infiltration point, but I wished Obsidian had brought back the R91 and the Combat Shotguns, but you're right, the other guns Obsidian gave us were pretty spiffy as well. That said, I'm a bit sad there seems to be more focus on energy weapons. I don't hate them, but I prefer conventional assault rifles and pistols over Laser Rifles and Plasma Pistols. I wish Beth would hire a dev like JE Sawyer who really knew his guns and tweaking of game guns.

The pipe assault rifes annoy the hell out of me! what happened to the Chinese assault rifle?

Keep your ad hominems for your relatives who may appreciate them.

That or they didn't include it because it wasn't used a lot.

9/10 people I know never once crafted ammo because they could never find the components in the game world, and it was almost always cheaper to just buy ammo then buy the components.

That and the game was so easy, even on hardcoe, and offered so many +damage perks/chems, that one could easily kill everything with just normal ammo.

Crafted ammo was basically pointless in NV.

I'd kind of buy that as an excuse. Reminds me of the Alien universe. A setting envisioned by the 70's.

I wouldn't have minded if the current assault rifle was more of a "makeshift" one and the pre-war one was an m14 or the one from Fallout 3.

The guns are all over the place, but understand that most people are rocking it out with pipe rifles lawl.

Those old gun designs are from ancient gun schematics, modern weapons require polymers and oil to create which are in short supply in lore.

Not to mention people prefer retro looking weapons in this game or futuristic ones not in between.

It would have been nice...the absence of such is painfully apparant. Have you seen the Deliverer? It's a Walther PPK.....in 10mm. It would be painful to fire that thing, not to mention really unsafe to fire a powerful round like that in a straight blowback pistol.

That was one of the nice things about it....you could play the game perfectly fine without crafting ammo, but for more discerning people, it was there. Some of us used the hell out of it...the components aren't at all hard to find, vendors sell them and also you break down ammo you don't use to reload rounds you do. Enough people used it that the devs felt obliged to nerf .308 JSPs twice.

I quess creators of original Fallout grew up on science fiction of that era It may seem strange to newcommer to Fallout series at first but it ads certain almost artistic walue to the game and sets it apart of other similar games. I really appreciate that Bethesda fully picked up on it.

But isn't that the case more or less? Your M14 is "battle rifle", resemblance is clearly there, while "assault rifle" is more "futuristic" (in Fallout retro sense). You also have to consider fact that unlike in our universe, laser weapons became "new" standard for individual soldier weapons, replacing what ewer was standard before.

I agree with much of your sentiment in this statement, so far, as I have only played about 60 hours. I miss factions, decisions affecting the story/an/or how other feel about you, ammo crafting, disguises, and extensive dialog. I will also say I love Bethesda, and my opinions are not a bash it fest. Many of the new things Bethesda has implemented in FO4 I do love,but I feel it is lacking in the areas mentioned before. All in all, I love the game!

On the bright-side mods will address much of what I want to see in this game. Unfortunately, I will have to upgrade my PC before I can start working on an interiors mod . . . my mouth waters at the thought of filling in all those boarded up building

I love the setting. I love all the stylised billboards and advertisemants around the place. I love the radio-plays on one of the unlockable radio stations. I love the look of the laser weapons and the robots. I love the giant, mutated creatures. The immersion and the world elements are there.

There is no resemblance to a battle rifle or an assault rifle. The weapon is clearly inspired by a Lewis MG, which is neither of these. The combat rifle is clearly a BAR (and the combat shotgun a modified combat rifle). The sub machine gun a Thompson SMG. The assault rifle in Fallout 4 is not futuristic to any degree, not even for a stylised 1950/1960's setting.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/d/d4/Automatic_Assault_Rifle.png/revision/latest?cb=20150619222209

http://www.allworldwars.com/image/097/LewisMachineGun01.jpg

Now I'm going to assume Fallout 4's assault rifle is similar to the Pipe weapons. Crude, rugged and home made. Seeing that the Thompson and the BAR survived a nuclear war, plus another 200 years of general wear and tear. I don't see why we can't get any other means of pre-war weapons. There's no exact point where the Fallout Universe fully diverged from ours. Some people claim that it spurred off thanks to the transistor not being invented. Forcing people to continue using vacuum tubes, making them smaller but still not as efficient as an actual transistor.

Though that's going off topic. Lasers weren't an instant invention in this setting. Surely they had other service weapons in the US military between WWII and the creation of laser weapons. Using our own world as an example, I'd say laser weapons (and robots for that matter) only came into being beyond 2020 and somewhere before 2060.

Other than a few glitches and the possibility of a few bugs (which seems to be the norm nowadays for a newly relwaeed game), I have no complaints. I am more than happy.

I have bought Black Ops 2 which I have barely touched and I also had preordered Battlefront which is now sitting on the shelf as Fallout 4 has me completely hooked.

Looking at the different threads, it seems that some people are so keen just to find fault.

Did you really make a profile named "Gunsmith" just to do this? o-o

1. People have been complaining about the Assault Rifle non-stop, you're not alone.

2. Again, same as above.

3. That difference in range/velocity "increase" is reportedly negligible at best. I still agree, though, a few key points of the modding was half-assed. Especially when it came to armor-piercing capabilities.

I personally dislike the variety. I can go "meh" on a lot of design flaws in games and just roll with it, but the lack of variety just hurts my experience.

There is no pistol worth using on a stealth character, Combat Shotgun outclasses the only other shotgun, automatic rifles svck in general, etc.

The whole divergent timeline claim makes littles sense since the Chinese AR design and the american design are continuations of designs which pre-date the split (even if there are difference from the 1600s) and in any case the american and chinese designs are already canon.

There is no such thing as a single shot assault rifle, modern assault rifles can fire single shot or automatic that dual ability is what makes them assault weapons. a baseline assault rifle that lacks that ability is like a baseline rocket launcher that lacks the ability to fire rockets, its the automatic ability that makes a rifle an assault rifle.