You didn't start with that Pip-Boy. The Doc gave you his. Start up a new game and play through character creation all over again - he hands it to you just before you go out the front door.

This thread makes me feel ancient. Come on, did so many people just start playing RPGs with Mass Effect and Dragon Age, without even bothering to look at what else this genre has to offer?

Apparently. <_<

I'm under the impression that the only thing "RPG" means to some kids these days is that it's a game where you can improve your character's stats.

My RPG experience only began with Oblivion and I've been reading the forums in the last year and learning. I've been inspired by the other members who are using their imagination and creating their own stories. It's a genre that deserves to be supported still, not changed or eliminated. There's something in it for everyone and I've seen some very creative posts on this thread by people who are arguing they shouldn't have to make up their own story. I don't understand it. I want to say, "You just created that whole imaginative post there with lots of ideas...you're a natural." Oh well, I just think there's plenty of everything to go around and we can all share.

:fallout:

you're a courier who banged a chick in montana. that's it, everything else is up to you.

No comments on my assertion that a blank slate beginning is inappropriate for the limited world of a videogame vs the limitless world of PnP eh? What, am I just completely off base?

I can definitely understand where the OP is coming from on this, and in some ways I feel the same. I know I may be in the minority on this as so many around here hated the main story in Fallout 3. But in most of my MANY playthrough's (over 1000 hours) I had a connection with my character that I haven't been able to muster up with NV. I imagined his life as being one of loss and abandonment, all coming at a critical time in his adolescence. I always felt like my player would have secretly been in love with his friend Amata, and that she secretly loved him too. But they were both too afraid of The Overseer to open up to one another. After all, they had always been together, and she risked her life to help him escape.

Another emotional connection I likewise felt the two of them would have had was the loss of each of their mothers. And I felt that maybe they helped each other make up for that loss somehow by being there for one another. Then, when Dad leaves and the Kid is left there totally alone, his feeling of abandonment must have been incredible. And he was exiled from the only world he had ever known, and in my mind the only woman he had ever loved, to face the unknown in a brutal and inhospitable world outside. Can you imagine how torn up inside this kid must have been? I mean, he had NO ONE in the world and the only person (Dad) who he SHOULD have been able to trust abandoned him without even telling him goodbye. Man, think of how alone he must have felt. To me, that's some powerful stuff and I'm sure many of us have felt similar emotions before. I know I have, and that's why I connected with my characters so much.

But with NV, all we get is shot in the head and left for dead. That's OK too, as it's by design. And hopefully I'll be able to come up with something I can connect with. But so far, it just feels like a FPS - like someone else said, "eyes with a gun".

Mass Effect and Dragon Age are recent and still relevant to compare current video games to. That's why I brought them up. Want me to cite some older RPG's that prove the exact same point?




Most posts don't get specific replies. It's just two sides echoing their own opinion on which they prefer. Neither is right or wrong, and neither is going to be convinced to switch teams. Comparing a PnP RPG to most computer RPG's is apples to oranges. Your assessment for in-game validation is the same argument I've tried to put across as well. All sound arguments from both sides fall on deaf ears. 8)



- To be clear, I didn't like the Fallout 3 "you are this" role either. I just want a few vague choices that give some small feedback throughout the game. For example, the Doc asks you where you came from, and you have a list of replies such as, "I was with the NCR, but that was a long time ago" - which will let an NCR trooper or two recognize you and say something similar to "You look familiar, did I serve a rotation with you at the Hub?" Then you could roleplay a prospector, soldier, hired gun, etc. A set of vague responses could cover most reasonable assumptions, and one could be "None of your business" - which doesn't affect the game at all and lets you RP anything else that you can think of.

And again, the main problem for me is that to RP whatever you like, to have to clearly ignore several in-game references to your mysterious past. There's all sorts of silliness going on that just slaps you on the face. It makes for a mystery and could be an interesting plot point, but it shivs most RP toons to death with a set past. A past that is identical no matter if you're a Stripper Ninja who prosttutes out to the rich but gives to the poor, or a one man wolf pack on a mission to save the world using only your beard and crowbar. It's not a blank slate, you aren't just some guy who by random chance got the job. It's a murky slate, and it was rigged from the beginning.

When does it imply you banged a chick in Montana? The Lonesome Drifter conversation never implies that you're the father .

I couldn't have said that better myself. I award you +1 internets.



Either that or people have valid counter-arguments.




It isn't lazy storytelling. It's a conscious choice to give role-players more freedom, since it is a role-playing-game, and all.

Freedom doesn't mean that playing ANY character will fit into the world, just reasonable ones. For example, you can't play a pokemon master who runs a gym out in the Boneyard, "I choose you, Deathclaw!". That just doesn't fit the setting. You can play a jovial mercenary, a former pit fighter, a Hellfire trooper who deserted from the eastern Enclave after losing his home, an anti-social Brotherhood deserter who ends up forced into postman work when he realizes how useless his tech-savvy skillset is outside of the Lost Hills bunker. You'd rather have one, bad option? And that's exactly what the story in Fallout 3 was: bad. Whoever wrote "Please, Three Dog, I'll do anything to find daddy!" (paraphrasing) as the only option to move forward the story should be fired.



Stealing everything from his house is just something that you have to get used to in RPGs, it's in all of them. Honestly, do you EVER hesitate to steal a skill book? As for the pip-boy... yeah, I thought the same thing. To be fair, the doc is an old man and likely doesn't want it to go to waste once he kicks the bucket, which makes some sense. The spare vault suit makes perfect sense, your previous clothes likely need to be washed (they would be covered in your blood and all), but you can't go outside naked.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBYQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.collegehumor.com%2Fvideo%3A1930495&rct=j&q=college%20humor%20rpg%20heroes%20are%20jerks&ei=d5_iTNeVLoaqvQOo743uDg&usg=AFQjCNHyP417mxO1i5WvIMzRGayQzR_USw&sig2=ddCPkzD2NQq32aH3bFXuwA&cad=rja

You obviously haven't read my posts entirely, or you entirely missed their points. Is there any harm to the Doc asking if you remember who you are, and having a set of vague responses that correspond (and even affect your stats if you don't override them in the menus) that will give you some minimal feedback in game, with one being an actual "blank slate" option? Is that worse or better than what we have now? We agree that Fallout 3's character wasn't ideal, but giving me a definite background, letting me know that I'm very important and that there are some critical things that happened, just not what they are, is not a blank slate in my mind.





Apparently the sarcasm wasn't thick enough. And to answer your question; yes, if I'm playing a good character (usually my first play through is as myself, if that makes sense at all), I don't steal. Even skill books. If I were to consider it, I RP that I bought them off the person by paying them a very large sum much more than the book is worth in-game. The pipboy makes no sense at all to me, and is just shoe horned in. Even if he wanted it to go to use, he just gives it to you? You could me a mass murdering psychopath, but he wants to help you out and give you this incredibly rare and valuable artifact just because. But, if you stub your toe too hard he charges you for the bandaids. There are 1000 things he could do with it other than just hand it over, but you can't function in the game without it so it's just an obtuse plot point.

The vault suit is shaky, but still doesn't make sense. Sure, you need new clothes, but why a semi-unique item in a town full of people who wear western clothes, in a world wear most people wear western clothes? There has to be some spare coveralls to give away instead of this pristine vault suit? Again, I see the other side of it, but I wouldn't even begin to say it makes perfect sense.




Fallout 1 and 2 weren't widely known or played? What!?!?

Seriously, I hate that we're arguing the same side of this.....

@ valkebus

Thanks - I enjoyed that link. :thumbsup:

@ shibboleth and @ Kodiak888

Good points about PnP RPGs vs. video games. I hadn't considered that angle.

@ Balok

I agree with you completely about F03's character motivation. The story may have been ripped from the earlier games, but it was cribbed b/c it was a solid, immersive narrative that made you feel something for your character.

@ Fallout Ninjalo

Woah. . .take a deep breath and calm down.

Im good there guy dont worry about me, just yourself, dig...., i smoked and chilled before i even got on forums so im all good, lol. I just made a point and wanted to show i got no lack of imagination or thinking, just think the developers do. I do think the FO3 story was too linear but it was still a good story. I know people want a blank slate but my argument is that you cant just be anything since they freaking set up a plot and beginning for you, sorry [censored] but thats the truth

BTW kodiak I dont wanna argue but my point of FO1 and 2 is they were on smaller systems and seriously if you look it up they wasnt highly played by most gamers. The FO universe expanded their fan base by tons with FO3. They were great and all but not many people got into them as the more widely known games, this isnt my opinion but what ive read and by games sales :sadvaultboy: . I played em and thought they was bigger than they was but i may of been wrong but im just going on research guy

For those saying this is a story without a beginning - Fallout has never been the story of a single person - inlcuding the Wanderer or Vault Dweller or Chosen one.

Fallout is the story of the wastes and of the land - and its backstory is all there.

It is oft stated by the I need a past crowd that making up your own past makes no sense since there is no acknowledgment of it in the game.

Why do you think everyone in the Mojave area should know you?

There are a couple of passing references to you having been to a couple of other FO locations, but what makes you think this isn't the very first time you have ever set foot in the NV area? Why WOULD anyone know you or your past?

And I'll head off the But I work here because I am the courier arguement. Being a courier I would think that you deliver a package to a location, try to find an outgoing package and move on. It's quite possible your pick-up in Primm was the first time you had ever set foot there. Your name was on the list because you were expected with a delivery from somewhere else. The other courier who recognized your name? Knew you from somewhere else.

I went to Ohio not too long ago, never been there before. I ran into an old couple from Texas who knew my grandparents when they lived in Illinois. But the rest of the folks in Ohio had no idea who I was. Why would they?

It does if you have a certain perk.

Yup, exactly the kind of stuff that makes a fixed videogame world much harder to apply a blank slate, do-it-yourself character building model. Past having to DM for yourself because you get little positive feedback on your character background, you'll even run into negative, contradictory feedback, which you have to willfully ignore or modify your character on the fly.

A videogame is a limiting medium, since you're trading freedom for shiny graphics and exciting realtime action sequences. Obviously you can still roleplay diverse characters, but often you'll be shoehorning them in and competing with a 'canon' gameworld. There's an art to adapting your character to the game and weaving it with the opportunities presented to you, but in the end you're trying to put the round peg of completely freeform character generation into the square hole of a preset videogame world.

Posts insulting other forum members has been removed, play nice folks :nono:

The game's lore is not what we're talking about here.




So if I wanted to RP an retired NCR prospector it's completely unreasonable to like the idea of another NCR soldier recognizing me in New Vegas? No one suggested that everyone in the Mojave knows you, that's not what anyone has said in this thread.

I'm skeptical until I see the lines of dialogue myself. That wouldn't make any sense at all, the drifter is obviously at least in his late twenties, and your character would have to be in his/her (oh, yeah, another reason you must be wrong, this plot point wouldn't apply to women and the backstory is the same for either gender) 40s for the timeline to work.

Yes. It is unreasonable. The NCR has close to a million people in it, and you aren't even in the NCR, you're in the Mojave.

From Vault wiki:

"If the Courier is male, it is implied in conversation with The Lonesome Drifter (with the Lady Killer perk) that he impregnated a woman in Montana in 2263, seventeen years before the game takes place. This places The Courier's age at his mid thirties or older, assuming that he impregnated said woman as a teenager."

This doesn't mean that the courier is the lonesome drifter's father - just that the courier also had a child that he abandoned (just like the lonesome drifter's father. . .who may be the mysterious stranger from F03).

Note: I haven't taken Lady Killer so I haven't seen the dialogue for myself.

The NCR happens to be in the Mojave. If they're not then we're definitely playing different games here. We are talking about RP'ing here; maybe you were in it and after you left you traveled there? Why am I not allowed to RP that I'm ex-NCR all of a sudden? If you think that's unreasonable then go read about Boone. In any case, that was just one of many possible examples.

But it's obvious that rhetorical isn't your thing, so let's try sarcasm.

You're right. It is 100% impossible and entirely unreasonable that I will run into someone I know downtown because there are 3 million people who live in my city. It's strange that I happen to always see someone I know though. Or that I will run into someone I know when I travel to Austin or San Antonio. Yet, it happens. I must have luck 10 in real life. :glare:


People in the NCR travel around, they talk about traveling around and where they came from. It is not unreasonable or game breaking if someone thought the recognized you if you had chosen that background path.

I've bumped in to a childhood friend while visiting another country - he called my name while standing behind me at the bar.
I bumped in to one of my neighbours in a different country and a work colleague while in Russia.
I've met old Forces comrades in bars and trains...

The human race after the Fallout is much smaller. Someone working as a courier is definately going to recognized by someone else.
Yeah, if the Doc gives away his old Pip-Boy then something is seriously amiss!