Of course I'm talking about mortals here (or at least people who began as mortals)

My bets would be on either Zurin Arctus or Sotha Sil. Of course that depends on your definition of power. Power as in, able to kill the most people with the most ease? Or able to perform the most spectacular magical feats? I personally think of magical power as being powerful in all schools of magic, and the ability to use them to the highest degree in tandem with each other. But what do some of you think?

P.S. I would have put Mannimarco on this list, but since his not-so-spectacular appearance in TESIV it would appear that he's not nearly as powerful as he was made out to be in Daggerfall IMO.

DnDism. Don't think you can properly discern that in TES; all the characters in lore don't have stats.

I'd tell you my favorite, but i really don't have one. Because I think that's the best anyone could do.

mannimarco was defeated by galerion so i think galerion would be more powerful and jagar tharn

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=791519&hl=most+powerful+mage

I know...

'Bout as bad as that recent little rampage of necromancy that just popped up...

Probably a Psijic.

Really? I don't think so because in

Implying that he raised his corpse, I think.

Tarhiel.

So true... I mean his invention is just... brilliant.

I actually used Tarhiel's scrolls to beat the Clockwork City.

I reckon in modern times at least it would be Borissean. Think about it. He lives in the Arcane University, has mastered every magic school and sells master level spells. This si an even greater achievement considering he is a Redguard, who are generally not spectacular mages...

Still I think the Psijics are far greater then a mere Redguard in the Arcane University.

I mean they have pretty much altered the world from time to time.

And not all characters in TES lore have stats. You used states in your assertion, god-of-madness.

While I appreciate that you tried to use a more logic based answer rather than educated speculation, I would also consider Psijics being most magically compentent as well. Then OR now.

Just finished reading The Sage at til and wondered if Gyron Vardengroet or the Sage as he is later called should qualify if the book is lore based.

My bet is with Sotha Sil being the most powerful, with Divayth Fyr coming in second. Or maybe Kargenac instead of Sotha Sil?

Jagar Tharn had great power, i mean, with the magic he had he took over the empire :shrug:

but that had alot to do with the staff, but still.

Jentina was the most powerful. Hands down.
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As for Mannimarco, I dont think you shall use too much gameplay stats when discussing lore, since they probably scaled him down a little to make the fight more suiting for the gameplay.

Mannimarco became a God - so if he qualifies (and at a certain stage magic mastery equates to immortality for practical purposes) then there is another contender = he who is now the Sun ... I'm thinking they all started out mortal.

Then there are some very powerful Nord Singers (their motto being 'he who farts last larfs longest') who can blow just about anything down. What's the betting that once TESV arrives our view on things will be changed once more, will we won't we.

Dagoth Ur managed to use the Heart without Kagrenac's Tools ... how? So he is a contender.

How many of them have achieved CHIMp - so rogue and originally mortal that he is, Vivec also has a claim.

Mind you I recon I was a better mage than the lot of them put together (in all my many incarnations down the Ages!)

I still believe that was a mere mortal avatar of the God of Worms. Since he ascended to Godhood, the real him probably escapes to some pocket realm when one of his bodies is destroyed, like what Lord Vivec talked about, or what we saw Umaril doing in practice.

I think most would agree with you Haido ... but then is an avatar entirely separate from the God?

A true avatar starts as part of a God and is attenuated from His substance ... so though the avatar might be killed it would not really be mortal assuming that part or all of it is then subsumed back into the corpus of the God.

I'm not sure if the person who was killed in Oblivion was even Mannimarco at all, avatar or not. Could have been an imposter. Who knows? He went down far too easily, even at the highest difficulty. (Even my BARD killed him, and due to game mechanics that's really saying something.)

There is http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta.shtml, however, which is perhaps more canon than mine. Or not...I'm under the impression that even things written by the Devs are never absolute canon in this series, as each piece of parchment is written by a biased third party with his own political interests.

This theory of course maintains that Mannimarco was immediately stripped of his godhood by the Jills of Akatosh, but that a new god, the God of Worms Mannimarco, was created at the same time...meaning the two beings are very separate and that the original Mannimarco can be killed.

I'm skeptical. If the Jills could undo this, why not undo all the changes made in Daggerfall? It makes no sense for this to be the only one.

If they indeed corrected that "numidition", then I think they did it because it would very well mess with the cycle of Life and Death to perhaps an unstable degree.

I hate to say I haven't done much reading about it though. That's just an educated guess.

Game wise, the Revenant or Necromancer's Moon still works after you complete the Mage Guild questline and kill the Mannimarco NPC.

In other words, the Devs didn't see it fit to imply that the entity in the sky, the dark moon that shines its light on altars to create Black Soul Gems, passes away when the NPC's health reaches zero. Whether this was mere oversight of a subtle commentary on Mannimarco's immortality and the illusion of the death of his fleshly avatar is anyone's guess. It could be interpreted either way.


edit: However it's important to remember that in the previous game, Morrowind, some of the enemy characters that should have logically died after completion of the MQ still exist for months or even years, game wise, after the defeat of Dagoth Ur. Ash Slaves for instance continue to spawn forever. So much of the things that can be mistaken for Lore are mere game mechanic. Although it could easily be argued that even in the absence of the Sharmat, the plague Corprus doesn't entirely disappear. It just...ceases to be "manufactured" and spread by ash storms, but could still spread by conventional means. I imagine the local government and the Temple had to send some agents and healers to mop up what remained of the Blight even after the good work of the Nerevarine.