Nerevar?

I was always of the impression that at least Sotha achieved CHIM as well. Is it just me, or has the way we talk about that concept completely changed in the last few years? It was never this ubiquitous before.

Really, the evidence points towards Almalexia being the most powerful, in terms of battle, of the three. An easy way out would be to say Vehk with Prep-Time, of course. Wasn't the whole point of the Tribunal that they were three equal Gods? Mastery, Mercy, Mystery. Or, more darkly, Mephela (You are mastered through hidden webs), Boethiah (Mercy bestowed on you only in relation to deadly overthrow) and Azura (Mysterious through blinding excess in knowledge). In their own spheres, I don't think any of the three could touch the other, if looking at the Tribune in their prime. Saying Vivec could easily match Almalexia in battle is akin to saying he knew more about Clockwork than Sotha Sil. While all three of them were warriors to some extent, Almalexia seems the most fearsome.

Sotha Sil was a Psijic. CHIM is wrongheaded to him.

Lorewise they are all equal power due to drawing the same amount of power from the heart and each have their own tactics which makes them further more equal. Sotha Sil has his magic and creations, Vivec has his speed and stealth and Almalexia has her strength and power as well as Hopesfire which is the only other sword that can kill a god besides Trueflame.

CHIM appears to have it's limits. Vivec wanted to avoid a fight with Cyrus.

Actually, both Cyrus and Trinimac have Vivec outmatched on MK's "Most Powerful List," but I'm not sure how serious that list is to be taken.

Cyrus has CHIM shooting out both his ears.

Explain. Is it because he was the protagonist of Redguard?

That's one of at least two reasons.

Could you provide a hint for the next?

But your saying it's possible to have CHIM and not realize it? Cyrus' purpose is to be a normal person in the very bizarre world of Tamriel.

I prefer to see CHIM as a philosophical stance. I think it is closer to Nirvana than crudely accessing the construction set, like that tired article suggested. But thank the Three, this thread isn't about CHIM. As Allerleirauh has just proven, everyone has their own interpretation.

I just dislike the idea that just because Vivec was MK's favourite he can wear his transcendental plot-armour that proudly. In a straight up fight, Alm leaves Vehk with a broken nose, full stop. (And what a fight it'd be! I'm thinking Titus Pullo and Gaia in Rome Season 2...)

No argument. As I said, he himself says Ayem could whip him around the block. But. There's something to be said for the fact that he didn't lose his tiny little mind and become completely catatonic or murder his other selves. Assuming your Nerevarine was not a dike, he wins the meanest mother melee by being the last one left standing.

Aye, therein's the CHIM, I guess.

No, it's more like saying "I think this is crappy pseudo-lore, and I'm going to ignore it". It's not really important in any way. It's just there to be interesting (and I guess I'm not the only one on the lore forums who doesn't really like it)

Besides, If CHIM makes you a god, then why does Vivec hit the floor in so many people's games? And why does he need the heart?

And when did MK invent CHIM? Why isn't it in any of the games. Is it even hinted at in Morrowind?

Dude, it's in the Sermons and Commentaries, so it's in the games (there's a whole book devoted to it in the Commentaries; http://www.imperial-library.info/content/mythic-dawn-commentaries-vol-3). Heimskr even spouts lines From The Many-Headed Talos, which is a CHIM reference.

Vivec 'hits the floor' because his connection to the Heart has been weakening for a time. The Tribunal needed to 'refresh' their connection every so often but were not able to because of Dagoth Ur. The Heart is the source of their power and divinity as gods.

redacted

They were each the best in their respective areas. Almalexia could beat, stab, or slash you to death, Sotha Sil could magic you out of existence, and Vivec could sigh with bohemian ennui and then write a poem that convinced you you never existed in the first place. Pick your poison.

In any case, it's all moot. The most powerful being in TES lore is Random Leveled Ogre, the primary antagonist from Oblivion.

Well CHIM is the realization that you are in a dream (or video game) and you don't really exist. You can then change the dream right? Sounds like cheat codes for NPCs which I dont think makes good lore. And why does Vivec not change anything? You can just walk up and wack him and he dies. I'm not asking about his stolen godhood. If he can change the dream, why can you just slaughter him?

I think the whole "realizing you're in a dream" thing is kinda cool, but then it just gives you cheatcodes for life, which I think is pretty lame.


And I bet Vivec is still the strongest of the 3. Though Dagoth is still better.

The point of CHIM is the love of the dream, not the ability to change it. You can do that, but it's also not necessary.

Howcome there are no peasant nobodies who achieve CHIM? Sub-Plothole?

Redacted because it seems I don't really have evidence.

Perhaps there are, if Allerleirauh's comment on Cyrus is correct. If not, whether by her being wrong or me misunderstanding her point, it's because they don't have the time or ability to gain the knowledge on it.

I see no evidence to suggest Cyrus has CHIM.

As for why peasants don't have CHIM: 99.99% of the population doesn't have it. To approach the concept, or the various related issues (towers, the wheel, etc.) requires one to be a scholar or monk devoted to it. Your average farmer or cobbler doesn't really care about the Akatosh/Lorkhan dychotomy or kalpas.

Approaching the concept is different from attaining it. Vehk was no scholar, nor was Talos. (A third of him, anyway.)

A large injection of "greatness" and mythical positioning/posturing puts you on track towards CHIM. Yes, unfortunately, most farmers don't conquer many lands or fool around with the Hearts of dead gods.

So you have to do something big? You have to be a king or ruler of some kind?