I'm sick to [censored] death of people who construe the CK/video game reference(s) from CHIM; as if it were the main point of the concept. It's not. Yes, it can be interpreted that way metaphorically but that's just a side note. Think of it only in 'in-universe' terms. [censored] that other [censored] off.

Commoners generally fare poorly in fantasy literature. It's an unfortunate side of the genre, but definitely not unique to TES.

It's also the biggest beef I have with Lorkhan's plan. What, millions are going to suffer and die just so one or two people can achieve an Enlightenment (one some dislike, at that. Like the Psijics) every few thousand years? Usually people who are live perfect, non-commoner lives, at that. And usually very unpleasant people.

It's not just so once every few thousand years a couple of people will achieve enlightenment, it's so one day, everyone will. The Godhead will wake up to a new reality.

By the mannish view, however, it is by Lorkhan's designs that those millions are able to exist at all.

One that requires constant focus (at least for CHIM, we don't know the specifics of Amaranth). But, if I understand correctly, there are other paths to Amaranth.

Do all the people who Zero Sum get a second chance?

Vivec was a netchiman's son. Despite his retconning, it's very important to remember that's what he started with. He was a brutal little bully with a very attractive boyfriend, an orphan whose father was as common as common gets.

True. But he achieved it "after" he became a god (despite the retconning, as you said), correct? But most are not willing to do that, nor do they have to skill or abilities.


Edit: But yes, you are right. Anyone can achieve CHIM. Still, why is CHIM a good thing?

I doubt it, but it's my understanding that zero summing instead of achieving CHIM is just becoming part of everything without saying "I AM," therefor the you that was you seizes to exist. It doesn't get destroyed, it just gets spread across everything. So if/when the Godhead awakes, those people would still awaken with it, because they are still part of everything.

At least some paths that attempted to reach it. The Loveletter mentions Numidium, CHIM, the Psijiic Endeavour, the Prolix Tower (No idea what that is), the Enantiomorph and the Scarab That Becomes The New Man (No idea what that is too), and Vivec's sermons mention 6 ways to Reach Heaven by Violence, presumably the ones mentioned in the loveletter.

Also Vivec doesn't use CHIM because the whole nature of CHIM puts you in the state of mind where you don't want to use it. The only time he actually used it was to gain revenge on Azura and dissappear mysteriously.

Can Dragons achieve CHIM?

Why not? They are all egoistical and ambitious in nature, and thus less likely to Zero-Sum.

If Paarth chims lore will have reached a new low

Tiber Septim did.

What about Daedra? Lesser Daedra live forever. That's a lot of time to ponder your existence.

Anything with consciousness and self-awareness can come to the realization that they're part of everything. Some things are just more likely than others.

"They do not know it yet, those millions that work, rule, and commit their countless sins out there in the cradle of all written history, but he will save them. In ones and twos, then in droves, and then their own priests and their own kings will throw down their false idols and take up the http://imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride."

Ah, thank you for this.

Daedra can't achieve CHIM because they are way, way too selfish and have one big ego. Yes, they completely are able to say "I AM" but not so much "I am everyone else too". The thought being filthy mortals is disgusting to them.

I'm always amazed at how close this all is to Buddhism.

As for the fight, I'll put $20 on Sotha Sil.

Of the Tribunal, they all, I belive, had the same amount of power as godhood goes so you must take in account their individual talents. Vivec was powerful to be sure but Almalexia was a warrior to boot. I think her fighting skills would have trumped Vivec's in a straight up fight. Sotha Sil on the other hand was a powerful sorceror Before he was a god. Even in gameplay magic has an advantage over the sword. It is magic. Sotha Sil would probably overwhelm both Vivec and Almalexia with his magical might. But considering the fact that Almalexia wields Trueflame and actually killed Sotha Sil, I would say that she is the most dangerous of The Tribunal though Sotha Sil wins in terms of sheer power, as a wizard.

Did I say this somewhere? Honest question.

But, sure, I'll play Fight! Tribunes! Fight: the Face-Snaked Fury would have wrecked Vhek. Mothers before poets, mercy before warriors.

Alma would win if it was a one on one fight. If they lead armies, it would be closer. Vivec has the military genius and Bouyant Armigers, Almalexia has the High Ordinators and Her Hands, and Sotha has Fabricants. I'm not sure who would win that.

Nice idea and well put. The Sharmat would win that war just by sleeping.

Not all deadra are the same though. I'm talking about lesser Daedra. Not just Dremora either. Aurorans, Mazken, Golden Saints, etc.

Velehk Sain proves that not all Deadra think the same as others. Sain is more ambitious and selfish than the other Dremora, but he is still different. And he appears to have a bigger interest in material possessions. He lives like a mortal, and spends all his time around mortals.