I don't think there are any taliban supporters here anyways...

Anyways you're probally right about the NCR going into overdrive. If they just kill Aaron Kimball it probally would lower moral, but then make a lot of the citizens go crazy with rage towards the Legion. The Legion may win the dam, but then the NCR would come back over and crush them.

The Germans and Russians had a treaty, the German attack was a suprise, because they had a treaty. They were not supposed to attack Russia........ cl is going to attack the dam.

normandy............ Half of the German military was bogged down in Russia #1 #2 we are not talking about 1 dam here, the allies could have attacked over 100s of miles. They choose normandy for a reason, and did the largest beach invasion in world history.

German soilders that survived said they looked in the ocean and all they could see was ships. They were not suprised, but overwhelmed.

They were fighting on at least 6 fronts by that time, and there is no way they could predict where the US/UK attack would be.

CL is going to attack the Hoover dam.

I stand corrected then.
Still, they only hired one guy to take out the Fiends' leaders, so to say that they will hire mercs to take care of "all" the Fiends doesn't sit well with me.

We only know of one guy that they hired, the only to survive. He may mention others have tried an died, but I forget.

Are you counting the Courier or that Ranger as being hired?

Also (in the Legion's defense) although the Legion lost at Hoover Dam they're invading from the south, my guess is the NCR couldn't get their reinforcements through the Divide and the Legion was just expanding and didn't have that many great forces at the time...

The Legion wasn't there in force in the first battle. The majority of the Legion was pacifying the East, when Graham attacked the Dam, now both sides have their reinforcements, and nobody is winning, what a shocker.

The Russians knew the Germans weren't going to honor the treaty. The whole point of the joint invasion of Poland was to put up a buffer zone in case the Germans did invade.



And using surprise in the same sense as you, NCR wasn't surprised that the Legion was invading the Dam either.

Also, you haven't explained why the Legion's top soldiers don't meet the strength requirement for their weapons.

That was my thinking, Caesar (or a lower member) was expanding east, north, and/or south bu Graham was tasked with expandin east. He didn't have that many forces at the time and the NCR went into the fight with Rangers. They retreated and had to use a pretty desperate trap to put things in their favor.

And there's the evidense of the Legion taking over Cottonwood Cove with a Ranger Base right [censored] there, they even got as far as Nipton with minimal detection, they could've gone all of the way to NCR territory!

EDIT-@Giantevilhead
Brush up on you history, a Russian spy in Germany told Stalin all about they're invasion, they had the most information about a 'secret' invasion in history but Stalin didn't believe Germany would betray Russia like that so he had the spy exectued. Know about stuff before you use it in arguements.

@ Little Beard Thank God I am not a military commander, because it would be horrible for people to live or die by my plan. Even if the plan works men will die.

If find it strange that you think I would get them all slaughtered though. After all, I would go over every way it could possibly go wrong 1000s of times. No possibility would be left.

I would lose sleep for 4 years. I would personally go to all these places and attempt to keep them doing what they are supposed to be doing. I would look at angles of approach through a scope myself many times over. When I set up men I look at how they can be killed. I look at how my set up could fail, then I ask others how it could fail.

Just like in GB clan matches I may lose, but it will not be because of over confidence, or lack of planning . When I plan strats, I start by looking at how it will go wrong. That theme lasts throughout the planning process. We may lose, but not because we are unprepared.. Sometimes the enemy is just better.

[quote name='Giantevilhead' timestamp='1312161612' post='18222410'

Also, you haven't explained why the Legion's top soldiers don't meet the strength requirement for their weapons.
[/quote]
So then the Russians were not surpised once again 1000s of miles vs a dam and a river crossing.

NCR has people more qulified to use them. CL does not have recruits with amrs, but their best men. Cls best men use their best weapons. Troopers alone with sniper rifles on a dam is just dumb.

They have a sniper unit that Oliver does not want there. They have vet rangers that Oliver seems to use to protect himself instead of fighting the [censored] battle. CL just strolls top side like a walk in the park.

Im done here


CL would win because NCR seems like a bunch of idiots. End of story......

No, its a cliffhanger, much more exciting.

Good points, however there is one thing here: The Mojave isn't the NCR's war, it's Kimball's war. It would only become the NCR's war if Kimball dies.

I never said that the German invasion was a secret one. I said that the Russians were surprised by the German invasion, which they were. The fact that it was due to Stalin's insanity doesn't change that.

The fact that the United States might have known about Japan's plan to attack Pearl Harbor doesn't change the fact that it was a surprise attack either.

No, you sayed the Russians knew that the Germans weren't going to stay true to their treaty and invade.

Which is true. Just because Stalin was insane doesn't mean the rest of the Russians were insane too.

But you also said they got half of Poland as a buffer to put space between them and Russia whereas the German gave it to them as a sign of peace, and Stalin (you know, the crazy guy who did not believe they were invading) was the one who made the deal. And that's not true, The Russians did not know what was going on in Hitler's head.

We have derailed this thread enough though...

Courier dead means...

Benny would've kept the platinum chip
Mr. House couldn't do a damn thing about it
Caesar would've sent a Legion supporter to destroy the bunker
Boomers would remain isolated forever and be unable to complete their dream
Gomorrah's plan to kill the Three Families on the Strip would've succeeded
Brotherhood of Steel would stay isolated forever, only coming out when things are clear
Kimball would be killed by the Legion
NCR would be demoralized and stuck with an idiot for a commander
No Courier means the Legion would flood the Hoover dam power generators
With Lanius at the head, Caesar's Legion will wipe out the NCR rangers, leaving only the grunts left
With both the Legion at the top of the Dam and bottom, Oliver will be dead by the Legionaries
Mr. House couldn't beat the Legion with only Mk 1 Securitrons and few in number. Mr. House would be dead.

Overall, without the Courier, the Legion's victory is inevitable.

House even id Benny had activated the securitrons at the bunker he'd have to install yes man by killing house, house already knew benny's plans and could easily have him killed when he returned to vegas and then use the securitron army to take over the mojave after dealing of the winner in the NCR vs Legion battle since neither side could defeat the other and have enough strength left to take on House hence the stalemate to begin with.