Caesar. I felt really guilty working for the legion and while I do usually agree the ends justify the means; I believe the legion will collapse on itself before they reach that end. Though Caesar being my main nemesis is largely just natural as I'm a supporter of the NCR.

Three words Caesar.must.die.

Well, it's a tie between Oliver and Dr. Borous.

Oliver is personally a moron and represents the NCR who on their current path are likely to start another nuclear war in the future.

Borous is the [censored] who invented CAZADORS, I hate those. He also turned his dog/best friend into a cyborg and umped him full of chems.

My hatred is reserved for the NCR, not California, as California is my home. I hate their political ideologies that mimic America's supposed "democracy."

I love my home of the NCR, but I hate their rules and laws. Their desire to just police everyone and to control everything makes me lose my mind. Knowing this, I set out to destroy their political advances in Vegas the first chance I got. Although I hate the NCR, I have TREMENDOUS respect for NCR Veteran Rangers. Even made up history for my Courier to idolize their black armor and always wanting to become one as a child. The Misfits and 1st Recon were also respectable NCR troops that my Courier chose to spare them as they hail from the same flag.

Boone is my favorite companion because he's the first one to shoot at NCR troopers, so I roleplay it as me poisoning his ideologies for a better and Independent Vegas.

So when I got the chance to free Vegas as an independent power, in my mind I was still raising the flag of the Two Headed Bear.



Also, Caesar lays a great case for the survival of the human race. In my mind, I took what he said to heart about the Roman culture and about it being a society that could and would survive a post-Apocalyptic World. I would have a truce with him if I could in an Independent Vegas, actually that would have been awesome to have given him a peace treaty.

Btw I voted for Benny because [censored] that guy.

?? And you actually think that this is ok?

Why wouldn't it be?
It's not like the men's lives are better. I'd argue that they're far worse off.
I know pregnancies can go wrong and that they can be harmful to the woman, but comparing how often legionnaires put their lives on the line to the amount of times a pregnant woman does, I'd take my chances as a breeder over a soldier.

So how do you think the breeders whose only job is to churn out as many children as possible get pregnant exactly?

Out of that list

I don't have a problem with Mr. House. He's usually the one who I would side with as I feel he's the best option for New Vegas. Mr. House is very simple, he likes to make money and will eventually help out the people of New Vegas with that wealth.

Caesar, he's an interesting one. I don't agree with his ideology but I admire some of it. I usually put a bullet in his brain because the Legion's going to destable after Caesar dies, why not speed up the process.

I hate Benny for the fact that he's the one who puts you in the situation in the 1st place by stealing the chip.

Ulysses, I can respect what he's preaching although like Benny he puts you into the mess in the 1st place, even more so then Benny. I usually put a bullet in his brain too.

Olliver is just another loyal run of the mill soldier. I really don't like him because if he wins then the problems that are currently plaguing the NCR, won't go away.

They do rituals to summon storks?

They force the legionnaires to have six with them of course.

Force is the key ingredient alright.

Elijah.

Forgot about him, definite bullet bait.

Benny, although I respect him for the way he hands over his legacy to you if you don't kill him at the casino I can't freaking stand snakes.

Benny than Caesar's Legion. Benny on a personal level (even though I think it would have been cool to get him as a follower if you chose Independent Vegas), I mean he did shoot you in the head at the start of the game, but after choosing CL once I will never again so they are my main nemesis.

something thats interesting. We got all sides murdering people, not for something they done but because of who tbey are. People getting punished without trial, losing lives and property and family on all 3 sides. All 3 sides doing dirty deeds and small scale genocide.

But the legion is the "bad" guy because solely the people [censored] slave women, not all women because many are made into wives and pristesses, but because theres [censored] of women slaves to breed?

Is everyone so focused on that bad deed that we consider the other bad deeds norm or ok? Yes I know [censored] is bad, but is everyone so focus on that one single detail that the murder, genocide, theft, spilting up familys, and lose of rights that all 3 factions do, are we saying thats ok?

Yes Man, he NEVER [censored] dies!

No ones saying the other stuff is good, but it's better than what the Legion does so boom goes the dynamite. Plus I side with the NCR strictly cause like Yes Man you have options to peacefully resolve situations with their outcomes coming out generally good, where as even most of the Legion allies seem to get boned in the deal.

As for the bolded part. That's speculation we have no idea how many are actually made wives and priestesses so I'm inclined to believe most are just there as cattle to breed more soldiers.

'Everyone kills therefore everyone's the same!'
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9lz6s2Fy71qlvj4w.jpg

Well all the bad that we can blame one side does, the other 2 sides have either done it before or are still doing it.
Like the [censored] of women. Mr House is supporting having women as slaves seeing Gomorrah pretty much grabs women and gets them hooked on drugs so they never leave, and if ur an outsider girl, u try to leave u end up dead if u leave before they done with ya. Mr House supports it because hes the leader of said casino and they are using six slaves to bring in people who spend money which Mr house benfits from.
The ncr has also in past games has their hands dirtied by slaves and six slaves, the only difference is that the goal in mind was smaller forthe ncr and Mr house since they did it for money whereas the legion are a bigger scale because they are focused on populated their culture raised up in their ideals.

Each factions shares the same morally bad weaknesses, just on different scales. But tbh if a faction sanctioned an act of [censored] even just one time isnt that just as bad in itself as if a faction sanctioned it multiple times?

The thing is I see people going after the legion strictly due to the [censored] of women and yes thats wrong, but its bad that faction is because its on a grander scale even though the other factions also sanction or have sanctioned it in the past.
Also im not a legion supporter, just like playing devils advocate BC im usually a house man, but just playing devils advocate to show how great obsidian made the different factions and so that people are blinded by focusing on a single spot and ignoring the rest

Oh, you'll hear no disagreements from me here. Though I do regard the House way of doing things as better than Legion, he's not exactly a nice guy, and I couldn't side with him if I was doing a proper 'what would I do' playthrough.


And I obvs condemn this too, but it is in the past. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be ashamed, or shouldn't make reparations, but they are currently more moral than Legion. If we were dealing with NCR back in the days when they had slavery, I'd have the same opinion on them (almost) as I do Legion.


... no?


Tbf it's an obvious topic, and likely the most controversial. Still however, we have plenty of people going after Caesar because of his ridiculous punishments, tortures and way of running everything.

Ulysses feels like the only really personal nemesis in the game.

I do hate Caesar, passionately, though I think of him as a broader threat than a personal nemesis. To me, the ends do not in any way justify the means, particularly when the ends are far in the future and by no means guaranteed, and the means come at the price of slavery of generations of people. Oh, the slavery is only temporary?? Whether it lasts 50 or 200 or 500 years, that's a lifetime (or many lifetimes) gone to slavery. Think the fact that it's temporary matters to a woman who is repeatedly [censored] and forced to endure pregnancy after pregnancy over the course of her entire life? Or to a man who is forced to commit brutal acts of violence against innocent people against his will? Sorry, I don't believe in trading freedom for security.

For those saying that everyone in CL is a slave so it's equitable and women don't have it any worse than men: do you really believe that? Perhaps most men are "slaves" too, but I haven't seen any collars biting into the necks of the soldiers, so they at least have a chance (however small) of escaping if they just can't take it anymore. I doubt anyone is [censored] the soldiers repeatedly or forcing them to impregnate women against their will - in fact, my bet is that impregnating the "breeders" is considered a perk and perhaps reserved for reward or higher ranks. Many die in battle, yes, but do you really think many women don't die in childbirth or of complications related to that in such a crude society? Even if they don't die, how many of them are wishing they would? What kind of life do you think those "breeders" endure? I guarantee you it's got less freedom (even over their own bodies) and respect than the soldiers' lives. There are things worse than death.

Someone upthread said that Caesar is open to women in his ranks because he recognizes a female Courier as exceptional and gives her rank. I don't think this is generalizable, but a gameplay inclusion only to keep from excluding female characters from doing a CL playthrough. I'll believe Caesar is open to giving women a place in his army other than breeders and drudges when I see a single woman other than the Courier in such a position. There are some women, especially in this game, who would make better fighters or strategizers than breeders, yet none exist in Caesar's army to my knowledge. That's not sixist?

They all deserve to die... Caesar died by Fatman, Yes man ran out of battery, Benny got crusified, Ulysseus died by ED-E ==DD Oliver, i didn't find him :-/

Vegas for BoS only That's my opinion!

Cymry-I agree with alot of ur post. The thing is about slavery is can we actually name a nation that wasnt founded on slavery, meaning they didnt use and capture and buy slaves to,make that nation happen? Can we not say that women slaves for those nations werent used as breeders either seeing how thats a cheaper way of obtaining slaves as well?
Meaning that yes looking at the persent of most of these nations we would say at that time the country or people were dispicable and nothing good can come from the suffering of those people.
Its all about perspective. Slavery and having women as breeders is a very common in so that pretty much every nation used and was built upon slavery.
Hence why the whole scenario is viewed as a neccesary evil, because of what comes afterwards. Can we say we are evil and no good can come from us since our countrys were at the beginning used and relied on slavery to make the countrys happen?

Again, just playing devils advocate. Ill stop here and not derail the thread.



My nemeis would be Elijah.

I said Caesar for a many reasons.