Who do you worship when the Tribunal is broken?

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:57 am

If the Nervarine insists on his gruesome fabrication that the gods are actually dead, they will kill him and spread a rumour that he went on a mysterious expedition to Akavir.


:rofl:
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Thema
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:37 pm

Does anyone know what religion Helseth adheres to, by the way? That seems like an important point.

As any wise leader in his position would, I don't think he strongly leans towards any religion. A bit off goodwill hear, another bit there, and you're keepinge everyone happy.
...for a while.
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Claire Mclaughlin
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:34 pm

He might of intended it, but he really didn't work hard to make it happen, and he probably hurt the chances. I'd say the Dunmer would have a hard time worshipping Daedra again, after the whole invasion and the Trial of Vivec. Especially since Winged Twilights were at Ald'Ruhn.


According to Oblivion's rumours, everyone was turning to Daedra, it seems.

Does anyone know what religion Helseth adheres to, by the way? That seems like an important point.


Helseth is a pragmatist. He joins the religion that can give him the most benefits.
He is probably not a devout Temple member though. From the quest to find the Temple Informant:

:Temple informant:
"King Helseth joined the Temple when he arrived in Morrowind years ago. But the Temple is the enemy of the Empire, and King Helseth is an Imperial in every sense of the word. Now -- will you help us find a Temple informant who can tell us whether the Temple is willing to accept King Helseth -- or whether the Temple plans to act against him?"


Also, it seems that many Hlaalu are joining the Imperial Cult. From "A Brief Life of Uriel Septim":

Uriel worked through shadowy agents of the Blades and through the court of King Helseth in Mournhold to shift the center of political power in Morrowind from the Great House councils to Helseth's court, and took advantage of the collapse of the orthodox Tribunal cults to establish the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Nine_Divines as the dominant faiths in Hlaalu and Vvardenfell Districts.



And from "Caius Cosades' Letter":
There is little to report from Kragenmoor. As you may well imagine, interest in our Akatosh shrine has increased ten-fold since His miraculous intervention. We experienced little of the Gate disruptions you saw in Cyrodiil, but what we did see wonderfully focused the minds of skeptics, back-sliders, and old-guard Tribunal worshipers on the manifold glories and powers of the Nine. As I have told you, House Hlaalu has always been but a lukewarm guest to the feast of the Nine, but I am seeing more heart-felt interest in divine counsel and prayer than in years past. It is unfortunate that only such a terrible calamity can awaken the mind and spirit to the comforts of the Faith.

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Bigze Stacks
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:44 am

That would be believable... if it weren't the Redorans, rivaled in their loyalty to the Tribunal only by the Indorils.

Eh, the main problem with it is that while natural disasters and the Black Death can be seen as the punishment of god, the passivity of the Tribunal appears like sitting out of a divine pissing contest, ie. losing.
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Jani Eayon
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:20 am

Well you know Vivec has CHIM. How do we know that the big fiery dragon wasn't Vivec?
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Lindsay Dunn
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:16 pm

Well you know Vivec has CHIM. How do we know that the big fiery dragon wasn't Vivec?

The same reason we know the Jemane brothers weren't Vivec.
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Emilie M
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 12:45 am

CHIM doesn't encompass transformation capabilities. Vivec is a Living God anyway; he wouldn't need CHIM to do that.
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AnDres MeZa
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:00 am

Regarding Helseth, don't forget that "Helseth and House Dreth (are) pick(ing) at the ruined carcass of Indoril. Not something you do if you're an orthodox Temple supporter.

As for people "not forgiving" the Daedra for invading and for ruining the cities of Tamriel, last I checked fear was still a pretty good religious motivator.

Ooh. This is all pretty juicy for my character. I can imagine an ex-Ordinator late of House Indoril wouldn't have too many people he wouldn't want revenge on. The Empire helps wipe out your way of life. Nords invading with the aid of orc mercenaries. Your own rival houses cutting you down physically and politically. What a mess for Vvardenfel!
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Emmanuel Morales
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 4:57 am

Well you know Vivec has CHIM. How do we know that the big fiery dragon wasn't Vivec?

If a being with CHIM was so inclined to change anything at all, the world would be unrecognizable quite soon. But there is no point in changing the manner in which a part of yourself is perceived by another part of yourself. Why should I care if my left toenail erroneously thinks my appendix is green?
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Stephanie Kemp
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:29 am

If a being with CHIM was so inclined to change anything at all, the world would be unrecognizable quite soon. But there is no point in changing the manner in which a part of yourself is perceived by another part of yourself. Why should I care if my left toenail erroneously thinks my appendix is green?

Exactly.
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Honey Suckle
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:08 pm

Well you know Vivec has CHIM. How do we know that the big fiery dragon wasn't Vivec?

Vivec would have defeated Mehrunes Dagon in a much different manner. Probably a very confusing manner that we'd all spend several threads arguing about.

Although it would have been hilarious to see him appear and stab Dagon with Muatra.
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Lewis Morel
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:50 am

[quote name='Apophis2412' date='May 28 2008, 01:53 PM' post='12300351']

And from "Caius Cosades' Letter":

There is little to report from Kragenmoor. As you may well imagine, interest in our Akatosh shrine has increased ten-fold since His miraculous intervention. We experienced little of the Gate disruptions you saw in Cyrodiil, but what we did see wonderfully focused the minds of skeptics, back-sliders, and old-guard Tribunal worshipers on the manifold glories and powers of the Nine. As I have told you, House Hlaalu has always been but a lukewarm guest to the feast of the Nine, but I am seeing more heart-felt interest in divine counsel and prayer than in years past. It is unfortunate that only such a terrible calamity can awaken the mind and spirit to the comforts of the Faith.

As a side note, the letter (written by Ken Rolston) is interesting because I'm not sure how much to take at face value. I doubt that the clear-eyed Caius Cosades we saw in "Morrowind" would really think in these terms. Maybe the letter is part of his cover (just as seeming like a junkie was a cover), and he in reality is still more of a Blade operative and spy-handler.
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teeny
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Maybe the letter is part of his cover (just as seeming like a junkie was a cover), and he in reality is still more of a Blade operative and spy-handler.

Come to think of it, you may be right.
Ken also wrote for Caius when he visited Uriel's tomb, and it was excellent, where this one makes me wince.
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Mashystar
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:15 am

I guess the whole thing with the letter and the possibility of it being part of his cover really hinges on who he's writing to. I certainly find it believable that the Blades Spymaster would be able to at least write correspondence and undertake the daily tasks of a chapel monk convincingly.


I mean, I doubt that the only people he'd be in contact with are fellow Blades.
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Katie Pollard
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:26 am

What about the Nerevarine? Can't they worship him? Or Saint Nerevar, or whatever he was before he came back.
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Mark
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:14 am

What about the Nerevarine? Can't they worship him? Or Saint Nerevar, or whatever he was before he came back.

Hardly god material, is he? Since noone knows neither who or what he or she is, or what he or she did. :dance:
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kiss my weasel
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:32 pm

*Points at the caption to the Fall of Ald-Ruhn*
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Naomi Lastname
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:56 pm

Come to think of it, you may be right.
Ken also wrote for Caius when he visited Uriel's tomb, and it was excellent, where this one makes me wince.


Exactly. Caius was probably just making sure that whoever might intercept his letters would continue to think he was only a monk. Who knows how many warlords or ambitious nobles might be starting to intrigue, now that the Septims are done.

(Thanks also, Drucifer4.)
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QuinDINGDONGcey
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:57 am

Of course, there is always the possibility that Caius' realization that his false Nerevarine was, in fact, a true Nerevarine, could have been a bit of a life changer. The realization that the Emperor isn't just a political operative, but actually had a hand in some seriously mythic events, could have turned him more fervently to his religion. After all, he's probably always had a part in the Talos Cult (like all Blades once that was written into reality), but maybe, after his experience in Vvardenfell, he began to take it more seriously.
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Christina Trayler
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:31 pm

If a being with CHIM was so inclined to change anything at all, the world would be unrecognizable quite soon. But there is no point in changing the manner in which a part of yourself is perceived by another part of yourself. Why should I care if my left toenail erroneously thinks my appendix is green?
Oh, I don't know. There's this thing about "once jungled" somebody decided they didn't like, I wonder how that ran through the chim gearbox. Has V done anything with chim?

*Points at the caption to the Fall of Ald-Ruhn*
Did you ever flip that picture and read the back of it?
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Javaun Thompson
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:11 am

Of course, there is always the possibility that Caius' realization that his false Nerevarine was, in fact, a true Nerevarine, could have been a bit of a life changer. The realization that the Emperor isn't just a political operative, but actually had a hand in some seriously mythic events, could have turned him more fervently to his religion. After all, he's probably always had a part in the Talos Cult (like all Blades once that was written into reality), but maybe, after his experience in Vvardenfell, he began to take it more seriously.


Interesting, Tarvok. Thanks.
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Cool Man Sam
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:50 am

Umm, didn't the Nerevarine have the hand in the serious mythic events? And wasn't emperor was advised, by advisers along the lines of prophecy? So, shouldn't Caius, in his epiphany, go to the ashlands for some serious spiritual rejuvenation? I don't see any way how the 8 and 1 hand a role in MW.
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Alkira rose Nankivell
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:42 am

Umm, didn't the Nerevarine have the hand in the serious mythic events? And wasn't emperor was advised, by advisers along the lines of prophecy? So, shouldn't Caius, in his epiphany, go to the ashlands for some serious spiritual rejuvenation? I don't see any way how the 8 and 1 hand a role in MW.


The Nine might have been keeping an eye on the Nerevarine, because three avatars show up in "Morrowind". The avatars of Mara and Zenithar were probably testing the Nerevarine; I figure they could have escaped from their captors at any time, but they waited for the player to show up. Wulf, the avatar of Talos, gives you his final blessing by speaking with you at Ghostgate and giving you a lucky coin.
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 12:02 am

The Nine might have been keeping an eye on the Nerevarine, because three avatars show up in "Morrowind". The avatars of Mara and Zenithar were probably testing the Nerevarine; I figure they could have escaped from their captors at any time, but they waited for the player to show up. Wulf, the avatar of Talos, gives you his final blessing by speaking with you at Ghostgate and giving you a lucky coin.


But Caius is long gone before any of that happens.

Eh, yeah. I've always thought the "incarnations" of Talos, Mara and Zenithar hanging around were simply watching a particulary interesting part of the show. If they really were important, those imprisoned people, and Wulf would have been part of the MQ. That you meet Wulf at Ghostgate at the end of the MQ is simply a nice cameo.

Seriously, they're about as useful as those "prophecy stone" things dotted around Cyrodiil.
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joannARRGH
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:22 pm

Daedra worship again. Mephala, Boethiah and Azura, and the 4 Corners will witness a increase in their congregations. Good for them.

Ancestor worship. Az, Bo and Me are only included because they are considered spiritual ancestors. The four corners are not worshipped.

Velothism is first and foremost an ancestor cult. Or have you missed all those ancestral tombs, and how the oldest holy city in Morrowind is Necrom, the city of the dead?
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FoReVeR_Me_N
 
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