Who do you worship when the Tribunal is broken?

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:38 pm

Ancestor worship. Az, Bo and Me are only included because they are considered spiritual ancestors. The four corners are not worshipped.

Velothism is first and foremost an ancestor cult. Or have you missed all those ancestral tombs, and how the oldest holy city in Morrowind is Necrom, the city of the dead?


How silly of me. I think it should be taken for granted that Ancestor worship is perpetual in Dunmer spirituality anyway, regardless of what they formally go off and worships. Vehk says the good Daedra will be focused on again, so that's what I alluded to.

Ancestor worship is so important, I simply thought it didn't need to be included.
User avatar
Andrew
 
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 1:44 am

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:21 am

Umm, didn't the Nerevarine have the hand in the serious mythic events? And wasn't emperor was advised, by advisers along the lines of prophecy? So, shouldn't Caius, in his epiphany, go to the ashlands for some serious spiritual rejuvenation? I don't see any way how the 8 and 1 hand a role in MW.


Caius doesn't seem to be the only one that could have potentially considered the Emperor a larger player than he might seem. According to http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/dagoth_plan.shtml, "The myth of dynamic invincibility of the Emperor and the Empire has long been an unquantifiable and intimidating threat, but recent rumors of unrest in Cyrodiil, of the Emperor's failing health, and the unsettled question of the succession have diminished the scale of that threat. Nonetheless, the revelation that the Nerevarine is a pawn of Imperial intelligence, hand-picked and sent to Morrowind by the Emperor himself, may cause Dagoth Ur considerable anxiety."

Suppose one spent one's life a a skeptic, but raised in a particular national religion (as opposed to a world one). One discounts that cultural heritage as humbug. Then has an experience for which no explanation suggests itself aside from the one that can come from religion and spirituality in general. Even if this experience is merely witnessing someone else's experience with another religion's phenomena, it may push one to take their own heritage more seriously... particularly if there is a potential link between the two, like the Nerevarine being a "pawn of Imperial intelligence".
User avatar
jenny goodwin
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:57 am

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:07 am

Obviously, to those of us who keep up with the lore, the Tribunal will always exist. Once they ascended, their immortal selves moved outside of time and they will always be.

I know you can't see me, but I'm smirking.

Well, it seems like mainstream Dunmer have gone one of two ways:

The temple has reverted to daedra worship, at least mostly. That's the way things semmed to be going after Morrowind, and in Oblivion a few people mention that in Morrowind "They worship Daedra in the Temple."

But also, some seem to be stranded between faiths. Several immigrant Dunmer, especially in Cheydinhal, mention that things were pretty bad, a beaurocratic mess in the remains of a theocracy with no god-kings left to rule. Where the majority of them wind up spiritually is unknown at this time, especially since they still hold the anti-Imperial mentality and refuse to do Nine Divines (Lucky them).

So the most realistic would be Daedra worship, probably mostly among the Anticipations. But really it could be anything.
User avatar
Marie Maillos
 
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:39 pm

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:08 am

The Nine might have been keeping an eye on the Nerevarine, because three avatars show up in "Morrowind". The avatars of Mara and Zenithar were probably testing the Nerevarine; I figure they could have escaped from their captors at any time, but they waited for the player to show up. Wulf, the avatar of Talos, gives you his final blessing by speaking with you at Ghostgate and giving you a lucky coin.


Can you refresh my memory as to what characters are the embodiments of Mara and Zenithar and where they are located, and what quests are attached to them? It's been a year since I've played Morrowind much and I'm considering being a pro-Imperial Cult crusader next time.
User avatar
yermom
 
Posts: 3323
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:39 am

Well, it seems like mainstream Dunmer have gone one of two ways:

The temple has reverted to daedra worship, at least mostly. That's the way things semmed to be going after Morrowind, and in Oblivion a few people mention that in Morrowind "They worship Daedra in the Temple."


http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=745922&hl=# is the Chapel of Julianos' (unofficial) position on the topic:
********************
"By secret glyph: dreamsleeve transmission
Dreamsleeve: elevated, security protocols granted
Security protocols: brilliance, scalebound, nirnroot

To Councilor Sjorenfried, in praise and honor for your Wise and Glorious Stewardship of the Empire!

...The Chapel Primates have increased their efforts to collect donations to fund the continuing research. Unfortunately, most of the tithes from the "civilized" provinces are, and have long been, committed to preexisting needs. On the other hand, the tithes from Morrowind have been exponentially increasing as word of the Tribunal Temple's collapse spreads through the daedra-razed ashlands of the Dunmer. The reactionary regression to ancestor and daedra worship has seen a merciful reversal (Praise Julianos and all of the Divines!) in the face of the naked aggression of their House of Troubles coupled with the impotence of the "Good Daedra" to provide assistance or succor, much less aid in stemming the tide of Dagon's raw carnage. Their conversion to the True Faith has increased the strength of our communication with the Divines, providing stronger Blessings, Healing, and Peace-Through-[the Hum].

What is not common knowledge, according to our sources in Morrowind, is the full-scale attack by Umaril the Unfeathered and his Meridia-sworn Aurorans against the Holy Chapels of the Divines in Cyrodiil. Neither are the Dunmer much aware of a mortal's hand (yet again) in defeating the Unfeathered. Should they prove to be resistant to the strategic dogma that the Chapel has already constructed concerning how each of the Divines Blessed the Divine Crusading Champion of Cyrodiil, then their faith may wane as it did in their shortlived rededication to Veloth's teachings. The Dunmer, above all others, want results, not promises. Existing in the actual presence of their Living Gods of the Tribunal for so long has made the distance kept by the Divines difficult for them to understand. ...
Until we speak again, I remain....

___[The Word Merchant of Julianos]


*******************

Additionally, http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=612599&hl=# is a recovered (unofficial) Redoran attitude towards religion during the Oblivion Crisis and Ald'ruhn invasion:

"[From a crumpled piece of parchment found by a merchant near the road between Ald'ruhn and Caldera}

They are looking at me. They are pacing below. They cannot reach me here on this ledge, but it won't be long now. I have crawled here to this crag with what little strength I had left.

My flight from Ald'ruhn was frantic. I fought. We fought. They just kept coming and coming, hordes of things more frightful than anything that I could have imagined on my own: the Dremora. Our walls were breached in moments. Our wives and children were pulled from our houses kicking and screaming, only to be savagely eviscerated by the teeth of the lizard-like daedroth. Their breath smelled of my family, and their eyes were turned on me. Did the Dremora yank the reigns from the back of the daedroth because he heard my pounding heart, smelled my fear, or heard my sobs? I will never know, but my fingers lost their will to hold my sword, the sword given to me in honor as an Oathman of House Redoran. I had given my vow to defend House, Land, and Honor from all enemies, but all thoughts of fulfilling that Oath flew from my mind as swiftly as Dagon's horrors flew into my city. I stood paralyzed with fear as the daedroth-mounted dremora looked at me. How long was it? A moment? An eternity? His war cry screeched my numbed psyche back to reality and I matched his yell, yet mine was of fear, a coward's cry. I could do nothing for Ald'ruhn. I could do nothing for my family.

I don't know how long I ran, but the daedric arrows protruding from my back is proof that I am being kept alive by fear. Now I am on a ledge above the monsters. They know I am here, as they have been taunting me for hours. I can't make out their language, but the daedroth mount is ramming its head into the side of the cliff with such force that my ledge will soon fall. It is over.

I have cried out to the sky in the hope that Lord Vivec will hear me. "Please, my God, save me!! SAVE ME!! We are Your people! Why? WHY? Why have You foresaken us?" I offered my life in eternal service. I offered the continued service of any future family that He may bless me with. I sobbed. I sobbed like a child crying for its mother, but Vivec paid my prayers no heed.

I sobbed to Nerevar. I cried out for Azura. I cried out even to the heathen Divines. None would answer this Redoran Oathman.

Now I look down at the mongrels of Mehrunes Dagon and it is no longer fear that encompasses my soul, it is anger.

Vivec has foresaken us.
Nerevar has foresaken us.
Azura has foresaken us.

Let them come. Let their jaws rend my flesh. Let them see my lifeforce snuffed before them. I have no higher power to swear by, as all have turned their back from me, so I will swear by the only thing that I still believe in...the Honor of House Redoran! I will have my answers. If my soul is sent to a better place, then I will not miss this God-forsaken land. If I am sent to a place of punishment for my cowardice, then it is there that I will find Vivec and the other "protectors of Morrowind." If I have failed to fight in this life, then I will make up for it in the next by placing my hands around the throat of Vivec. Ald'ruhn fell, not because of my cowardice, but because of His.

The ledge is giving way. I am coming for you, Vivec. You will regret the day that you handed House Redoran over to Oblivion. I shall.......[this ends the note]

****************************
User avatar
Amy Melissa
 
Posts: 3390
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:35 pm

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:14 am

Can you refresh my memory as to what characters are the embodiments of Mara and Zenithar and where they are located, and what quests are attached to them? It's been a year since I've played Morrowind much and I'm considering being a pro-Imperial Cult crusader next time.



SPOILERS on this page: http://www.gamebanshee.com/morrowind/locations/sqimperialcult.php

Spoiler
The "Ring of the Wind" quest for the Zenithar avatar, and "The Boots of the Apostle" quest for Mara.


User avatar
Mrs. Patton
 
Posts: 3418
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:00 am

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:05 pm

The ledge is giving way. I am coming for you, Vivec. You will regret the day that you handed House Redoran over to Oblivion. I shall.......[this ends the note][/i]
****************************


An extremely well written piece! Intense and original, no Mary Sues in sight, save for one. Which I must re-iterate in some other people's comments. It's hard to believe that 4000 years of Love and Protection of Morrowind are all suddenly forgotten in a day. Unless this Oathman is a particularly impious sort. I never thought that the customs and society of the Dunmer catered for those who would simply abandon all sense of position and duty on the onset of a single tragedy.
User avatar
CArlos BArrera
 
Posts: 3470
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:26 am

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:28 pm

An extremely well written piece! Intense and original, no Mary Sues in sight, save for one. Which I must re-iterate in some other people's comments. It's hard to believe that 4000 years of Love and Protection of Morrowind are all suddenly forgotten in a day. Unless this Oathman is a particularly impious sort. I never thought that the customs and society of the Dunmer catered for those who would simply abandon all sense of position and duty on the onset of a single tragedy.

Thank you for your kind words, Lord Hyamentar. Although I didn't include it in the piece, my view of House Redoran was mainly of a people rejecting the now freely proliferated Dissident Priest propagana that the Tribunal had deceived Morrowind.

Sadly, it took this Redoran Oathman's predicament to make him understand that the Dissident Priests were right. And, yes, I did want to write about a non-typical Redoran; not all of them are the cookie-cutter stoic and gravitas having warriors that we tend to lump them categorically into. Just like some children in a military family do not truly wish to join the military like everyone before them, so too did my Redoran dream of other things, having to become a warrior to take care of the financial responsibilities to his home. He only learned of his true courage and warrior's rage at the end, and ironically, it was Mehrunes Dagon that taught him. Thus we see why the Four Corners of the House of Troubles are considered holy.

___TWM
User avatar
Jake Easom
 
Posts: 3424
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:33 am

Previous

Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion