Anyone who's played Daggerfall remembers the system of using weapons, where dragging the mouse in a certain direction would bring the sword, axe or hammer into a swing- this also allowed for stabbing and I believe also disarming motions. Comparing that to the one-click attack styles of the later games I can't help but wonder, would it be more exciting to calebrate this old system of movement flowing slashes, instead of one- click?
I understand it would require a lot of revamping over the old system, such as how it would work in third person view, and if it would be incorporated onto consoles, but I can't help but think this would be a lot more immersive and make for a more rewarding combat system. Perhaps even make it an option.

Click the attack key (or button) to perform an automated slash. Hold down the key and drag the mouse to direct the slashes and perform combos, block oncoming attacks and make for some pretty awesome fencing/duelling style combat. Would even work with determining how far/strong the tug on a bow would be, and allow for more specific aim distance.

I understand this is all theoretical, but it just came to mind and I figured I'd put it out there for discussion.

The thing most people don't realize is Morrowind had almost the same system as daggerfall and arena. It's just you didn't have to move the mouse. It depended on which way you were walking.

But in TES3 it made no sense to use any other than the 'best attack' on each weapon. In TES2 the damage and hit chance was different to each strike, so it had a tactical approach, even if not major.
Anyways, Mount&Blade has better combat than TES series combined, so if you're gonna suggest something just suggest Bethesda to copy them. (haven't played Die by the Sword, but that upgraded to today's standards might be good?)

I know, but that's not what he was talking about. I was just letting him know that animations and third person wouldn't be a problem since they already achieved it in the third game. And it worked better than holding down a certain attack key, or moving the mouse (since it controls the view), and it translated to consoles just fine I believe.

I haven't played Mount&Blade in forever, but I do remember the combat being quite enjoyable. But I would still like the Elder Scrolls to be unique, and not just a "copy and paste" from another game.

Well thankfully the Elder Scrolls games have always had a high degree of innovation with each different installment. I played the games in reverse order myself (IV, then III, then II) and found the later ones to be MUCH better than the previous in...well, most ways, but not every. One of the downfalls of Oblivion however was that despite being highly combat orientated, there was very little influence over the combat.
I've never actually played Mount and Blade, but I might just keep an eye open.

Wow, I can honestly say that's the first time I've heard somebody say that there wasn't enough player control over the combat in Oblivion

Even as an Oblivion fan, I'd like there to be the same amount or less for the sake of roleplaying. Or if there's more for there to be a way that lower levels hinder your skill. Like a lower Marksman skill effects your range/damage/accuracy. It'd be easy enough, and there could still be player skill without getting 50 headshots at level 10 Marksman because your sword broke and you had 20 Marksman characters.

If you haven't played Mount & Blade then head over to Taleworlds website and download it right now. No really, stop reading this forum and go play it.

Now that you're back you will agree that M&B has one of the best combat systems. I especially like the importance of blocking incoming attacks - and how parrying an attack "stuns" or opens you're enemies defenses to a riposte.

Having said that, I would like Beth to take M&B and improve on it and add their own twist to it - and this is how...

1. Your skill affects the counter attacks you can make and the "stun" period your enemy suffers from being parried.
2. When you become a "master" of your particular weapon type you can enter "bullet-time" - that's just how good you are with that weapon.
3. Adding new "flourishes" to your attacks and defense as your skill in that weapon grows. So at low skill you do the basics, block, stab, slash etc. But as you get better you can parry, creating an opening, you can do reverse thrusts etc.
4. Add combat stances and styles:

Combat Styles & Flourish:
Each weapon class should have multiple combat stances and styles, in the interest of not getting way too technical, lets simplify it with this example:

Long Sword
Swift - A fast stance focusing on blinding attacks
Aggressive - A medium speed stance focusing on attacks
Strong - A slow stance focusing on powerful attacks
Defensive - A medium speed stance focusing on parrying and defense

You could then have each stance feature 3 or 4 styles - for example the Defensive stance might be:

Based on Ochs (German high-guard)
Based on Finestra (Italian high-guard)
Based on Jodan No Kamae (Samurai - arguably most defensive posture)

That's just a sample - I'm not suggesting it should be limited to those - but you get where I am going with it.

I think Morrowind got it good, only, I should a different attack when I move the mouse, not when I walk around. Would have been far better, imo.

The combat in M&B and Oblivion are nearly identical.

:blink:

I think the reason they changed it is because they did have an option in Daggerfall to play like that, but when you swing your weapon the screen goes with it. A somewhat hectic combat.

But they could just make it so the screen isn't moving when the left mouse button is clicked down. Though it might still feel a little awkward.

Fighting to the death in some random ruin with 5 smugglers and an Orc barbarian is supposed to be an organsized and peaceful activity? Personally, I see no problem. It's not as if I'd need to turn around 360° to do this. A simple 0.1 second move does it fine.

And, FYI, in Daggerfall, this kind of motion was stopped while I was attacking.

I'd love Daggefall's combat system to be back, it was really cool.

It is. Unless I am misremembering, in M&B you hold the button to draw back your weapon, and let go to attack. The attacks do more damage if you hold the button down. The only difference is that Oblivion applies special effects (Knockdown, Paralysis etc.). If you think that is a difference that actually matters, you need to play more games.

In Oblivion, you can just stand there and tap attack, dealing damage to any enemy

Mount & Blade takes into consideration piercing, bludgeoning, slicing, armour type, weapon type, speed, momentum, geometry which all leads up to a total amount of force, which then decides the damage done. If you stand there and just tap attack, your weapon will just whiff off of the opponents armour. It's an entirely different combat system

But no you are right, the differences are sublte

You're right that Oblivion didn't have different attack types (pierce, slash, and whatever the third one was), but Oblivion does take into account armor class, weapon class, character skill, fatigue, whether it was a sneak attack, whether it was a power attack, and whether the opponent was blocking. Speaking from experience, if you just stand there and tap attack, you die. A lot.

You flinched and recoiled too much in Oblivion's combat. Seriously, going from fighting in Morrowind to Oblivion was like going from playing Quake to Counter-Strike.

To a point yeah. I wasn't denying this I was just saying it wasn't at all like Mount & Blades

It takes into account armour and weapon class, but only with a number. Aka, your armour rating is 50, the enemies attack does 20 damage, you take 10 damage

However, this could mean you're wearing plate steel armour with a rating of 50, and the enemy is doing 20 damage unarmed. In a situation like this, you shouldn't take any damage at all

That's where real armour and weapon rating comes in

Ok, I'm confused... does this go for consoles too or is this another one of your "Computer Only Club" meetings inside your little treehouse?

I don't know which was more annoying - staggering in Oblivion, falling and laying on the ground in Morrowind, or being paralyzed for like 10 minutes by spell casting enemies in Daggerfall.

Well sorry if I don't want to get friggin motion sickness from trying to kill a damn rat.

But maybe that's just because my mouse svcks :brokencomputer:

Was that really necessary?

Yes.

I think the combat system applies to the game mechanic, not the platform. Stop "opstooking" Warseeker! :nono:

What I was trying to get it is that the combat systems for Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and even my beloved Mount & Blade are aged now and need a serious revamp. It would be like buying a 2010 Lambo, but they tell you that the brakes are from a 1920 VW Beetle. It need revision and expansion to make it more immersive and believable. Like the whole idea that you could do the same damage unarmed as with a battle hammer to someone wearing full plate. It makes no sense. It's sort of like Chewbacca!

Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor.

Now think about it; that does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with combat in TES:V? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with combat in TES:V! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a gamer defending my opinions about combat in TES:V, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're reading this thread deliberatin' and conjugatin' the TES:V Combat System, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must accept that a whole new combat system is needed! I rest my case.