The Ashlanders say that the tribunal murdered Nerevar, while Vivec says Nerevar died of wounds battling the dwarves. Dagoth Ur also says that the tribunal murdered him. Who is telling the truth here?

"He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator. Vivec wrote this."

It's all Lorkhan's fault.

Seriously. By the time you're done, you negate the divinities of two cultures, make a mockery of their customs and tear the heart of the world with the Sydney Symphony from Hell.

Blaim Trinimac, he caused the whole thing in the first place.

"TOPIC IS FULL OF BIG TIME SPOILERS"
Why not put it in the spoiler's section then?

On topic, I don't think there's really a definitive answer. Sure there's that quote that Paw-Prints-In-The-Mud wrote down, but how do you know if Vivec was telling the truth?

He said that while physically unable to lie.

Hmm?
Well then, I guess that clears that up.

Vivec always tells the truth and he always tells lies

Vivec confessed

Of course, it was a mortal Chimer who killed Nerevar. That was before he became a god who is only what he believes himself to be.

He is Vehk and Vehk, after all.

Mhh ... some additional (already well-known to many)

Vivec's denial is only, the Tribunal didn't murder Nerevar
So, he doenn't deny, that Vivec murdered Nerevar.

The book, 36 lessons of Vivec, sermon 36: read carefully and alert, the first characters of sentences aligned (acrostichon) spell:

FOUL MURDER ... coincidence?

And in the next chapter, accomplice Ayam murders Seth.

This is a topic for the Lore forum, so ........ off it goes.

I think the Tribunal did murder him, but that is just because it seems like it makes more sense and even though Dagoth Ur is a bad guy I will believe the story. The Ashlanders back that story too.

Imagine an octopus - many tentacles coming together at the head. Many events from many different timelines merged to form the apotheosis of the Tribunal. It is my opinion that the all of the versions of the events at Red Mountain are true, from the speaker's timeline memory.

For instance:

1. the Sermons have the Tribunal being born as gods.
2. the Temple teaches that they achieved divinity through heroic deeds and whatnot.
3. the Dissident Priests state that the Tribunal achieved divinity from tapping into the Heart.

AND

1. Nerevar was died from "grievous wounds" sustained during the battle.
2. Nerevar's death was later, and unrelated to the Battle of Red Mountain.
3. Nerevar was slain by the Tribunal.


We must, as a matter of course, not assume the mantle of incorporating a zero-sum conclusion to our examinations. Imagine one of those situations where a player in-game has to make a choice and

S eht
A yem
V ehk
E verything else (http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#11
S ithisit

his game at that crucial point. If the player makes the wrong choice, then the game can be reloaded from that crucial point and another choice tried. But what if those wrong choice timelines stayed in existence? Thus we have all of the different versions of the Battle of Red Mountain. This is the very nature of a Dragon Break.

___The Word Merchant of Julianos

The Tribunal murdered Nerevar, that is the account I believe. But no definitive answer is really given, as far as I know. Though the fact that Vivec confesses it seems to say something. I see little reason why he would do that unless he was true, since saying that you killed a hero that the people you are saying it to all respect will not make you look very good. And a divine impostor who needs the face of the people cannot benefit from not looking good.



So in other words, when the player saves the game he is actually causing a dragon break? That explains a lot!

No! Voryn isn't a bad guy! He's just...Confused.

And a bit insane. Innocent due to insanity. And it is all Vehk's fault as he murdered Voryn's best friend and is just a maddening person through and through.

Is that a legal reason not to get punished for murder or theft in real-life too? Just wondering.

But, yeah! Voryn is mentally ill and should be taken to a doctor, but instead Azura sends the reincarnation of his friend to kill him! I just talked myself into never completing the MW main quest again. Perhaps i can cast a levitate on Voryn when the bridge collapses to save him?

Yes. But if this is indeed the charge, the defendent gets sent to a mental institute, which I fail to see is better. I guess you can get released earlier.


I wonder if he'll appreciate you saving him. And we all should know that Azura is a ... not very nice person.

Vivec said that he (in his mortal lifetime) murdered Nerevar, but he never said that the others helped. By this, he would also be telling the truth when he said that "we did not murder Nerevar." And of course, he was later willing to give up his divinity to stop Dagoth Ur's insane plans, so he turned out alright. Regarding that whole "Muatra" thing, I don't follow the Freudian interperetation that everyone else seems to use.

Also my impression of Dagoth Ur is that he was a real genuine good guy at the time of the Nerevar and stood with him. His house was attacked and disbanded due to the loyalty afterwards. It arose as something corrupt, insane, and bad afterwards.

Dagoth Ur's disloyalty (or at least disobedience) towards Neverar began when he was guarding the Tools of Karganac before the death of Neverar and the creation of the Tribunal. Thats my understanding anyway. I've found http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/sindervelvinarticle1.shtml a useful source for the various accounts on what happened at Red Mountain.

Vivec showed him both sets of his "bits", and it so addled Voryn, that he swore to eliminate that image forever.

(Joke)

As I suspected, there is no real answer. But the fact that vivec says that the tribunal did not kill nerevar means nothing. Vivec has sort of the "dual personality" thing going on, and is also (to the best of my knowlege) closely related to Mephala, which brings his credibility to suspect. Also ask various priests about Vivec. They say he can be both heroic and cunning and decieving and truthful at the same time.

Dagoth Ur has no real reason to lie about this though, well, besides the fact that hes insane. :/