"Clever! But I'm not complaining about the complaining. I'm asking if you feel the complaints are necessary or even fair?"

"It's not even close to that though. "If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all"?

No. I'm saying. "If you don't have anything good to say, then say what you want in a respectable, logical, and constructive manner".

That's all. I'm not telling people to praise this game and never speak a bad word about it. That makes just as little sense. The game still isn't out yet, so people cannot know that it's definitely going to be amazing. It works both ways. However, stating your issues in a cohesive manner will lead to great conversations and much more productive ideas on how Bethesda can make this game better."

I agree to an extent. Some of the complaints are legitimate, but at the same time there's an equal amount of repetitive complaints about trivial things.

Of course I can complain. If I feel that they are doing something wrong, they have the right to my opinion, feedback.
And sometimes developers make bad choices, or a better solution to an issue could be found in a different way. Can we solve their problems? Not likely, but we can make them think about it for another 5 minutes, which may or may not mean a better solution.

For instance, the "We removed armor slots so you have less enchantment options so you don't cheat as much" arguement (was that ever official or just speculation?) is just crap, they could balance enchantments with enchantment points like in Morrowind, making some items better or worse at holding enchantments. If they had spent an additional 10 minutes brainstorming with the idea of, "maybe they like armor slots for customization," they could have made a better system. We'll never know, but its always worth a try.

I agree we should all show a little appreciation for what were bound to get which is another great game in the series.
Though I do like speculating and discussing what new things could be added, changed, or improved, I do dislike the level of complaining around here over trivial things.

I got no problem with people who express their disappointment in missing skills / features, etc. I'm sure I did my fair share of complaining about Enchant being removed as a skill in Oblivion after Morrowind. Enchant was one of my favorite skills in Morrowind, and was highly disappointed over it's removal in Oblivion.

That said, I agree with the bulk of your point. I just can't get behind statements that claim that Oblivion is a "dumbed down" game (a term I've heard used thrown around quite a bit for Oblivion). Sure, it may be simpler than Morrowind (and apparently Arena and Daggerfall as well, I don't know as I haven't played those 2) but I find Oblivion to be FAR from dumbed down. As you said, there is SO much content, SO much customization, SO much replayability.

spears and capes aren't my main gripe, I mainly hate how they're simplifying it for consoles.

"How does a thread complaining about all the complaining help the situation?" poll option, please? :deal:

What's this about no armor slots?

I've got *nothing to complain about. Haha, they've announced it *and previewed it. I'm extremely excited.

I do enjoy throwing out ideas however.

Where exactly do you get that idea from?
Seems to me they are streamlining the game for overall an improvement by removing things that aren't needed and improving upon things that are already there to improve balance and fun.

He was just using the removal of armor slots from Morrowind->Oblivion as an example.

Clever! But I'm not complaining about the complaining. I'm asking if you feel the complaints are necessary or even fair? :thumbsup:

Count your blessings. You think the complaining is bad here? Take a peek at the Halo Reach forum on bungie.net, and I promise it will never bother you again. :rolleyes:

To the OP.

The reason why theres quite a few people on these forums that state their dissapointments, wishes/dreams, what they to believe to be failures towards Bethesdas games, is because unlike most developing companies out there, Bethesda, more often than not, listens to their fans. Take me for instance, never played any TES games til MW, loved it. Played OB, didnt love it, but I felt that Bethesda broke their own balls to make it. For Skyrim, one of my few hopes is/was well thought out/written lycanthropy. I never have time to check out podcasts and trailers so I have no clue where thats at, at this point, but whether its in the final release in November or not, I will buy the game, and will punch a baby if it chooses to get in my way.

So in a nutshell, posters on here LIKE to voice their opinions and feedback because it gives the devs more to think about for current games and ones that will be made in the near or far away future

Removal of some armor slots from Morrowind to Oblivion.

I'm quite happy with what Bethesda is offering. When you're a PC user and an avid mod user, you know that in time you'll get all the content you'll ever need

It's just that from what I've read, they're really watering it down. It's kinda like how Oblivion felt watered down compared to Morrowind.

This is true. Maybe this is why I don't complain when I see something I don't like about skyrim 'cause I know it can be changed later. Console players are not so lucky though so I can understand them wanting things to be as close to what they want as possible because what you see is what you get.

Well, to tell the truth, the only things I complaint about are those ones that are hardcoded into the game, and thus they cannot be modified by mods. That (sadly) includes separate pauldrons.

Maybe the Creation Kit will be so advanced (and the engine so flexible) that would allow to add even that, in case they're not in the Vanilla game, but come on....there's no reason why there can't be separate pauldrons in the game. I mean, even Mass Effect 2 has them. MASS EFFECT 2!!

I can appreciate that. And like I said, many people here go about it the right way, asking if other members feel that adding ______ feature is a good idea. However, when people complain just to complain. For instance... "This svcks! They got rid of spears in Oblivion and now they're not bring them back! that's stupid!"... It doesn't help anything.

Giving valid reasons as to why they should bring back spears and discussing that with other members is far more productive.

Again, this community is fantastic for the most part. This is by far the best forum community I've ever encountered when it comes to civilly discussion a subject. I'm just wondering why ranting about spears and capes is so necessary when that kind of content is already given to us by the dozens. I think other topics, such as AI and fundamental gameplay mechanics, would serve a greater purpose in the end.

I would love for spears and capes to be in the game as well. The more content the merrier. But I'm not going to complain when they don't make it in, because I realize that those are two very small aspects of what will inevitably be a gigantic experience.

Aww okay so has nothing to do with Skyrim?

Good, that had me worried for a second.

I think the forums are here for feedback, and for the rest let's just say I agree with The Todd:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/649965-official-fan-interview/

It may not seem like it helps, but then when the people at Bethesda read and think "Oh no! People don't like this!" they will probably change it. Unless they're [censored]s.

Maybe...Oblivion never really felt watered down to me, I felt it was more..evolved as a game, sure it was lacking in some areas like dialogue but it certainly wasn't a step backwards. I feel Skyrim is going be just that -- more evolved as a game.

I agree with Todd, however, being critical and just complaining for the sake of it are two entirely different things.

Who would you listen to? The person who is asking you polity for some tea, or the person screaming in your face that you haven't already given them their tea?