Better then to prolong knockdown time for example, if you improve damage it will become to powerful. You can still carry an SMG or AR, so people could take various Nade Launchers to just grenade spam chokepoints, area killing people. Which i think should not be working as expected.

Edit: Comparing them to normal grenades is flawed, they have a reuse timer for a reason.

Agreed

I'm not comparing the single nade from the launcher to a standard grenade, I'm comparing all six. When a single grenade is that much more effective than six launcher grenades for the same purpose it needs a tweak.

The EZ-Nade is a crowd control device, and as such I would like to see it have just enough effect to make it worth choosing over a single molotov + machinegun for the purpose of crowd control. It needs a tweak; whether it be a little more damage, a better knockdown, flinging the enemy further upon knockdown, a slight disorientation effect, a little less random spread between launches, or something else is up for grabs, but it needs a tweak to make it worth being a primary weapon.

I can tear up the Hard AI with the Chinzor and Hjammerdeim. Have only tried the Chinzor online, but I managed to wipe the entire enemy team solo when I charged in decently-buffed (non-upgraded Health CP and a non-upgraded Medic buff, alongside my Battle Hardened, and an Engineer damage buff).

This was the mission where, as Security, your Engineer has to cut open the safe, then you have to deliver the documents you find in it. My teammates were all Light or Medium, I was the only Heavy, and I'd been left behind as they rushed (pretty ineffectually) at the objective. I walked into the room after they finished getting killed, and I had just cleared it when the first of them made it back to me. I then had some teammates doing the objective (I was a Soldier), and other teammates helping me hold off the enemy, and we managed to hold long enough to open the safe from 0% without losing control of the area. We had a really good Medic, and that was a HUGE advantage, as well as the 2 guys sticking to the Health CP (Medic and Soldier) who never let the enemies hold it for more than a couple of seconds.

Point is, with a little luck and decent buffs, Heavies can be AWESOME. But for best results, bring friends.

I have to agree with you. I have played a heavy up to lvl 20 multiple times because I like the idea of the heavy class but when you break things down the heavys fall way short.

I'm not saying you can't have success with a heavy I have done very well with them; however, for about 98% of the game med or light bodies can do a better job than a heavy every time and their weapons are way better.

The heavy weapons are a epic failure... I hear people say they are simply for suppression fire and only use them with the aid of your team mates, well use a good SMG or AR and guess what you "suppression fire" is much more effective in fact you can acutely kill more people in the same time of time and be more of a use to your team then using the heavy weapons (with the exception of a nade luncher in which case you are doing splash damage and try to keep enemy payers down).

If you break down the DPS and I will use popular guns:

None Heavy Weapons:
Euston: 400dps with 77% accuracy and 82% stability
Carb 9: 345dps with 69% accuracy and 80% stability


Heavy MGs:
Chinzor: 384dps with 58% accuracy and 77% stability
Maximus: 300dps with 74% accuracy and 71% stability
Gotlung: 360dps with 20% accuracy and 87% stability


The major issue with these heavy guns (with the exception of the maximus) is that their accuracy is soo low (and you can't aim like you can with AR or SMG to drastically help your accuracy) you hit very rarely even more so when targeting light/med bodies. Their DPS in my opinion is fine but if your bullets miss targets 80% or 42% of the time your real dps plummets something like 72 or 221 at med range and with the gotlung its so bad you can even miss a lot at close range (if shooting more then 2 secs). If the accuracy was fixed these guns could be something to be feared and much more useful for suppression fire but in the end as they are while you are doing suppression fire your damage to the enemy team ends up being less then if you used a AR or SMG because even with more bullets out there you miss way too much to damage well and if you burst fire the gun to try and counter the hideous accuracy your dps is even worse in some cases. As for the Maximus its ok but is out performed by many ARs and SMGs and it has only a slightly higher amount of ammo in its clip, no real purpose to use it over better weapons.

I think most people agree if you face a heavy strait on it should be something to fear, as it is the Heavy's that use heavy weapons are laughable, 1vs1 you can mow heavys down so fast they most time won't even damage you, as for their appearance in a group they are my last concern, kill the others that have guns that matter and if the heavy finally has his gun going duck around a corner and and when he pops around or flank since they are slower then dirt, ground him with a SMG or AR and you will kill him faster then he can kill you.

What makes things more worse is there is only 60 health difference in a light verse heavy which when you look at guns DPS you are talking about 1/5 of a second or 2-3 bullets not really much of an advantage there.

Point is, as things are the heavy weapons need to be fixed to make them useful in comparison to med or light guns. From what I can tell the heavy needs more health to help balance out his massive losses in everything else (.2 sec of extra health is not good enough) and his guns simply need to be made more accurate or the damage per bullet needs to be massively increased then even if you miss you still hurt by getting hit with just a few bullets.

You get 2 to 5 times as much ammo as well, so the damage and accuracy should not be the only factors you're comparing.

And Heavies have +50% health over lights, you don't think that's enough?

I think it comes down to people expecting something very different, but the weapons are very good and the heavy is very useful within the team structure.

The gatling gun is super useful while as resistance at the aquarium. I usually hide behind some cover, lean out to the right, start up the spin by ADSing, and then blast away or burst at anything that tries to get through while they are transporting the hostage.

The key benefit of the gun is its 200 round drum. This gun simply does not run out of ammo during an enemy rush.

Most of my game time with my heavy (engineer) has been sp, so I can't say against other people but I us the chinzor and carb-9 and depending on the set up have taken down a 5-6 of the enemy and been still standing. Granted, maybe I'll get hosed in mp, but I prefer to have greater mobility when I'm playing against other people. (medium/medic for that).

Nope you get 200, AR get 120, you just get it all in one mag so you dont have to reload. Its not even a huge benefit as some people seem to be saying it is, but I still love the Gotlung

In the BRINK game guide it shows the 3 stats that change between sizes. They are as follows:

Heavy

• Hit Points: ***
  
• Speed: *
  
• Climbing: *

Medium

• Hit Points: **
  
• Speed: **
  
• Climbing: **

Light

• Hit Points: *
  
• Speed: ***
  
• Climbing: ***

The total stars they have are:

Heavy - 5 stars-----(*****)
Medium - 6 stars--(******)
Light - 7 stars-------(*******)

The actual HP of each are:

Heavy: 180 pts.
Medium: 140 pts.
Light: 120 pts.

The run speed and (sprint speed) are:

Heavy: 120 (200)
Medium: 150 (230)
Light: 180 (270)

So yeah, heavies should have a little more HP.
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I agree with the OP on everything. 100%

Especially the bit about the heavy shotgun...worthless.

Actually for the most part the heavy weapons aren't bad the hammerdjiem shotgun can fire two shells in a 1 sec burst which is lethal to use as a short range insta kill weapon, the chinzor shoots fast fairly accurate spread which makes it good for suppressing fire and to peg off targets at a medium range. The only weapons for heavy i was disappointed with where the ez nade grenade launcher that thing was garbage could have done alot better with it and the gotlung looks awsome but the cylinder priming takes to long and the accuracy is horrendus the spread is just garbage. The maximus lastly though is a good well balanced heavy weapon that has great accuracy to medium to long range and does a moderate level of damage just control the bursts and your fine.

Actually for the most part the heavy weapons aren't bad the hammerdjiem shotgun can fire two shells in a 1 sec burst which is lethal to use as a short range insta kill weapon, the chinzor shoots fast fairly accurate spread which makes it good for suppressing fire and to peg off targets at a medium range. The only weapons for heavy i was disappointed with where the ez nade grenade launcher that thing was garbage could have done alot better with it and the gotlung looks awsome but the cylinder priming takes to long and the accuracy is horrendus the spread is just garbage. The maximus lastly though is a good well balanced heavy weapon that has great accuracy to medium to long range and does a moderate level of damage just control the bursts and your fine.

I just realized where all the problems are coming from; THE IN-GAME WEAPON STATS LIE!

For example, it shows the Rokstedi as doing very little damage less than all other ARs. HOWEVER, it actually is the strongest Assualt Rifle. While the in-game stats say damage, it's actually showing damage over a certain amount of time. The reason the Rokstedi's damage stat is so low, is that it is semi-automatic not fully automatic like the other ARs (except the FRKN-3K, which is burst-fire).


Similarly, the reason the Hjammerdeim seems stronger than the Mossington, is because it fires faster. The Mossington doesn't just seem to do more damage, it really does do more damage. I'll try to make a diagram cause there's no way in hell I'm typing so much.

while I agree that a little extra bonuses to compensate the Heavy penalties would be nice, this is for all the people saying Heavy Weapons are useless:

MGs rock and roll, ripping groups into tiny shreds. A Heavy isn't meant for solo, they are tanks. They draw the enemies fire while Lights and Mediums use thier more precise weapons and faster movements to drop tango's. Teamwork, Teamwork., Teamwork.

I will admit that the EX-Nade needs some modification to make it usefull. I don't really have an opinion on the "Hammer" as I call it, as I have only used it once and ddin't get very many chances to use it.

Heavies don't even draw fire very well if you die instantly from a carb-9 or something. When I am out in front I feel like I die fast either way. I feel like I can never truly defend myself.. if I see a light in the distance and I have my gottlung.. he will still probably kill me. like if I see him at medium range.

Also wana hear something else crazy.. From what I gather from my friends who play through game battles, there are very few heavies on either team.. probably 0 or 1 at most. Also, everyone uses a carb-9 with attachments to make hip fire better. So.. yeah that says something. Everyone has a carb-9 on them.. it probably isn't their primary but everyone has one.

You guys are using heavy's wrong. plain and simple. I dominate as a heavy because I know what I'm doing. You can't try with your gotlung at long distance's and medium works sometimes, but you play close range with miniguns.
Steps to properly using the Heavy
1) guns primary a gotlung secondary AR of your choice with a coga scope, Muzzle of your choice, front grip, and duck-taped magazine
2)Use your AR as your primary and switch to your gotlung in tight areas or when you think you can get close to big group of enemies.
3)when your gotlung is out always have it revved up.
These are the basics youll figure out more complex strats on your own.

you forgot the part about how a carb-9 is better than the gotlung at close range.

and medium range..

The whole reason I play light all the time is because I die just as quick on heavy anyway.

Main problem really is that SMG's are way to overpowered.

The weapon stats don't lie.

It doesn't say "per shot damage" - just "damage" - which can easily be dps instead of per-shot, because they don't define how damage is measure on the stats chart. People just make an assumption. And the Hjammerdeim still 2-shots a lot of targets the Mossington can't. It's a lot tricker to use it that way though, so I don't blame the people who have trouble using it.

http://denkirson.xanga.com/738334226/brink/

Have some stats. The ACCuracy is standing initial hipfire circle size and firstshot ADS accuracy. (bigger number is bad, means more spread, Light Rifles have 0.1 ADS)

Carb-9 23 damage @ 15 a second = 345 dps ACC 2.3 2.0
Chinzor and Gotlung 24 damage @ 15 a second = 360 dps ACC (Chinzor) 3.0 2.8 (Gotlung) 4.0 4.0
Euston 25 damage @ 15 a second = 375 dps ACC 1.2 0.8

Now the Carb-9 and Euston both get inaccurate really quick, and the Gotlung has no real recoil, but the lighter guns are far more accuracte. That means the heavy DPS is effectively worse, plus their extra ammo tends to be wasted on misses.

Rhett vs Maximus
32 damage @ 10 a second = 320 dps
ACC 1.8 1.5 vs 2.0 1.2
The accuracy makes the Maximus seem better than it is, but it has huge amounts of recoil. Muzzle Braked Maximus is far worse accuracy wise than a bare Rhett.

For both of these comparisons, the heavy weapon's only advantage is ammo capacity, which is mostly wasted on misses, so...

Hjammerdeim 16 damage x 8 pellets (128), two shots in 0.25s and then a 0.75s pause to rotate the cylinder. Tight spread, but firing at full speed the second shell kicks up.
Mossington 22 damage x 10 pellets (220), fires once a second and has a by-the-shell partial reload that can be interuppted for a partial reload.

So yes, all the Heavy weapons svck.

Also something else I don't think was pointed out, Heavy hitboxes are bigger, so they catch even more SMG spray, so yes, they die very quickly. 40HP is 2 SMG bullets which are fired at 15 a second...

My suggestion? Some sort of frontal shield, like say a large armor panel attached to the left shoulder to effectively reduce the hitbox size from the front for the torso and thighs. (Just imagine a riot shield strapped to the heavy's left bicep) Give the Heavy guns either a bit more damage, or some accuracy/stability. That seems like a balanced and interesting approach to the issue.

My Engineer is a heavy and I use the Maximus. I don't think it kicks that much, then again I don't lay on the trigger. I just burp it. Buffed and aimed instead of hip fired it is a nasty weapon and can drop people in just a few bursts. As a heavy you don't really move well so you need to find a spot where you can line up on enemies without being the first thing they see when they get into your sights. As far as weapons go though I think the Maximus is one of the better ones.

I agree with some of your points, but theres one thing about the weapons and body types. I can rip up a couple people at a time, up to half a dozen with a heavy. Thats great right? Well what doesn't make sense to me is the fact I can do it more easily with a light. It's not my play style, since I've always been a defensive player who loves big guns despite movement penalties.

A few things I would have liked but are now redundant would have been body type abilities and perks, but its too late for that now. About the shotgun, if you move around 25% slower, with a bigger frame thats more vulnerable to getting hit; the heavier shotgun should do more damage per shot no matter the range. I use the gatling gun as my primary, but I can do just as well with the Kross but since it fires instantly... well... :sadvaultboy:

There's only one Heavy weapon I really, really adore. The Ez-Nade. That thing is frigging :awes:

Sure, you won't be killing many people with it - but who gives a crap about k/d - but damn, its like crowd control juice in a barrel.

Also, it makes the whole map shake