My problem with all the Heavy weapons is atrocious accuracy and spread. They're great for POINT-BLANK range, but considering you're Heavy when you use them it's a little too hard to close the gap... heck, once I had the drop on a Medium bot in CQC with the Chinzor, I let rip on him for a couple seconds but he just whizzed around and dominated me with a Carb-9. If I sustain a Heavy Machine Gun on full-auto on a guy a couple meters in front of me, a couple seconds before he even fires, I don't think he should out-shoot me.

:mellow:

Though the EZ-Nade is insane in the right hands in the right place. Some guy in MP totally shut down a couple waves of our spawn with it so we couldn't get to the objective, and we lost it...

I still use a Chinzor as my "main" weapon and a Kross as my back up. Works fine for me.

I haven't tried the EZ-Nade yet though... doing that when I get home.

Don't judge based on the bots, they're shady with their super accurate SMGs.

I usually use my MGs (the Max with one guy and the Chin with another) at medium to long ranges quite effectively.

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There are multiple factors included when determining the balance of a body type or weapon, and most people skip the extras in favor of the most obvious ones. Damage is only one point on the board in either discussion. I continue to rack up "Most Kills" awards with my MGs so if you can't manage to kill a guy with an SMG then find a new weapon that you're better with because it's not the weapons that are the problem. The ability of a single heavy to lay down continuous fire for 5 times as long as most other weapons is what makes them great. Don't expect great accuracy (but it isn't bad either) and the kick is going to cause spread. But you can still full auto them until reload and wipe the floor with a collection of enemies.

Are you going to lose a shoot out here and there? Yes, but if you didn't you would have a ton of lights whining about how OP the heavy is. If you svck with a weapon find one you don't svck with and leave the heavy weapons to those that want them over the SMGs. I hear complaints about how weak all the weapons are and I hear complaints about the weapons being over powered, they can't all be right so maybe none of them are.

And to the comment about the EZ-Nade being awesome, I'll take your word for it and perhaps I'll have to readjust how I use it.

*facepalm*

All the pro-Heavy stuff I'm reading sounds like it's from the perspective of those that only play a Heavy.

So I'll make it simple, as a Heavy, equip a Maximus and fore-gripped Rhett. Sights to flavor. Kill with both weapons.

The Rhett has poor initial accuracy but far less recoil, giving it a much higher effective accuracy than the Maximus. The clip and ammo capacity is low, but Mediums maining the Rhett (or slightly weaker Gerund) tend to bring along the Kross or another SMG with extended mags, which do have plenty of ammo and spray capacity. Just to be clear, Maximus and Rhett have the exact same damage and RoF.

As for the EZ-Nade, kind of a joke, had a bot catch me in a hallway with that, shot me in the face with it, little grenades dropping at my feet, I just slid under him and shot him in the back as all his grenades exploded around him after bouncing back off of me. The Lobster at least knocks people down when I hit them with the grenade.

My point(along with stats) is that they're essentially equal to or inferior to light and medium weapons. Heck, just compare the Kross with Foregrip and Extended Mag to the Chinzor, does less damage at 18 a shot to the Chinzor's 24, but is far more accurate hipfire wise. Spray a crowd at head height and they go down quickly.

My problem with heavies is they don't feel any different from mediums, I gun them all down regardless. Heavies are just bigger targets that take an extra round or two. I say this playing primarily as a medium.

I like what someone suggested earlier: heavies aren't meant to run around, climbing stuff, and generally being maneuverable - they're best at locking down a location or slowly advancing. Placing a riot shield on them that can deflect a lot of incoming fire wouldn't only help them out, it would make them interesting to fight for their enemies. SD wouldn't need to improve their HP or weapon accuracy, it might just take more than one player to take them down: one to draw fire, another to flank. Of course, sharp shooters won't need to flank to blast away at any unprotected flesh.

Well you would be wrong with that assumption as my main is a light and I play multiple mediums as well.

And the point of "balance" is that every weapon is "equal" when it comes down to the appropriate situation for the weapon. Hold down the trigger and let the Gotlung rip and it far exceeds any SMG or AR, if you want pinpoint accuracy use an AR.

The weapon does what it should, if you can't do anything with it then use something else.

That's basically the point of my riot shield idea. Make their hitbox more like a medium hitbox. It would also mean they have more cover to their left side and their backs are still completely exposed. What I envisioned was something covering from neck to waist the left arm, like they just strapped one on. The head would still be clear to shoot as would part of the chest, it would just reduce how many hits Heavies take from SMG spray a bit.

That plus a little stability for the heavy guns for better range would make me happy.

And the point of "balance" is that every weapon is "equal" when it comes down to the appropriate situation for the weapon. Hold down the trigger and let the Gotlung rip and it far exceeds any SMG or AR, if you want pinpoint accuracy use an AR.

I provided the stats! The Gotlung does, 24 damage @ 15 a second, the Carb-9 23 damage at the same RoF and the Euston 25 at the same RoF.

The Gotlung has the most spread in the game however, so as I clearly stated before, most of those bullets miss. So effective DPS is in the toilet.

Once again you miss the point of the Gotlung. It's not for single targets. If you're shooting a group most of them don't miss, they just don't all hit the same target. People need to stop thinking of the weapons as being for "deathmatch" situations. If you don't like it don't use it, but they work fine.

Well, I usually roll as a heavy medic, and I have to say the Heavy Machine Guns (Chinzor and Gotlung at least) are very effective, the Chinzor more so because of it's accuracy and the fact you don't need to spin it up before firing.

*facepalm*

You can do the same thing with the Carb-9 and Euston! Even better, the Euston can fit a Underslung Grenade Launcher! The Euston DOES MORE DAMAGE! Before counting the GL!

The only thing the Gotlung and Chinzor have going for them is being able to hold the trigger down 2 or 4 times longer. Is that really so awesome? It'd better be, because that reload is at least 4 seconds. Oh yeah, the Gotlung doesn't get a reload without soldier help, so why worry about that?

I'm not asking for heavies to get more damage, but a bit more range, accuracy or stability where applicable. If a Heavy is on the Sec Tower wall whirring up the Gotlung, he should be able to do more than shave 20 HP off random targets' health in the seconds it takes an AR or SMG to explode his head off.

Seriously, against a group, I don't care if the Euston does more damage, it has 28 rounds. I have a light, medium, and heavy character. I'm not saying that the MGs are great at all ranges, but I do fine with them.


The heavy shotgun... can't do jack with that. The kick on the 2nd shot is nuts.

Actually, yes.

Oh good, more face palming. :rolleyes:

GL replace the grenade I already have, why the heck would I care what you can do with a GL? I'm perfectly happy cooking and tossing my grenade.

At this point it comes down to the simple point that you can't use the weapon and want it to be better so you can use it in a way that it clearly wasn't intended to be used. Many of us can destroy with the weapon at various ranges against multiple targets and without problem and would like it left alone.

Messing with weapons forces a change in how they are used, they were made the way they are for a reason, are good when used the way they are meant to be used, and don't need messed with.

Well if you're talking about cooking frags, then we're not talking about the Gotlung since that means several more seconds to spin back up... unless of course the enemy gives you ten second breaks regularly.

Comparing the Chinzor and the Carb-9 is a lot closer.

Chinzor, 24 damage @ 15 a second, 100+100 ammo. Hipfire 3.0 ADS 2.8

Carb-9, 23 damage @ 15 a second, 30+150 ammo. 60 with drum mag, and reloads are half as long. Hipfire 2.3 ADS 2.0

The Carb-9 does increase spread quite a bit after the first ten bullets, but those first few bullets are on target. Reloading is more often, but ammo totals are similar, although the Chinzor benefits more from extra soldier ammo.

For one being a Heavy Weapon and the other a LIGHT, they're a tad close in how they play. When I play Heavy, Chinzor with a backup Rhett for ranged or Lobster for crowds are the only heavy weapon set-ups I like. The Chinzor is really the only one I consider well balanced and it's basically an SMG with a bigger mag and more spread.

I'm not wanting a lot of changes either.

Keep the Chinzor the way it is for close range, it works.

Give the Gottlung more accuracy and make it a medium ranged bullet hose. The Wraith in Resistance 2 was like that, if the soldier knelt, aimed and let off the trigger regularly the groupings would stay nice and tight. At the moment the Gotlung is more close range than the Chinzor(due to spread) which is kind of... not where I would want to be with a spin-up and slow walk weapon.

Give the Maximus a bit of stability. It rightfully should have worse hipfire accuracy than the Rhett, but crouching and aiming it kicks a bit too much to work at medium-long ranges. If it was a bit more stable, it would be a good weapon to suppress snipers with. Kicking more than the Rhett is okay, but not that hard.

The Hjammerdeim is okay. I prefer the Mossington, but the Hjammerdeim does have an extra 40hp of potential instant death on first shot potential over the Mossington.

The EZ Nade is one of the few weapons I haven't extensively used, but my first impression says less damage and more radius on the grenades, seems like a good field knock down weapon. At the moment the little 90 damage 2m radius grenades seem like a shotgun effect, very random unlikely deathish or more likely nothing happens. (I literally ignore being hit by them personally)

I said this soon after release, but people disagreed with me on the LMGs and Heavy.


Counter Strike demonstrated how useless LMGs are compared to assault rifles or close-range sub machine gun usage. They've been worthless in every semi-realistic shooter since.

EDIT: Also, Super Smash Brothers demonstrates how useless heavy characters have always been.

the TF2 Heavy disagrees one of very, very, very few heavy set player characters done very well.

but i agree nonetheless.

Its not good all the time - but if you have people going through a zone, you can pretty much make sure they're always on the ground for your mates to kill, between the EZ-Nade and your own frags. There are a couple of places where its perfect and if your team can hold the position long enough for you to get there and between reloads (which are looong) you pretty much dominate.

A lot of fun, though not, I suspect, if you're on the receiving end - its probably like being under mortar fire.

I kinda disagree, I think they could be better (more damage) but my heavy soldier has a Maximus equiped with extended mag, a dual vent, front grip and red dot sight and I regurlaly kick a$$.

I think you're doing it wrong, if you have a good team (i.e. soldiers supplying you), you can rack up 200+ kills in one round (at a favourable chokepoint) with a Gotlung. If you know how hitboxes work (when they slide-tackle, their hitbox will still be at standing level for about 0.5 seconds) and can predict enemy movement you are simply invincible thanks to it's 4-6 hit kill capabilities. Don't snipe with it, bar yourself in a tiny room where they can't move much and let your fat ass soak up the damage.

all im reading is a bunch of complaining from ppl trying to go from light to heavy.. of course its going to feel different.. its a different style of play..
they all have their pros and cons... light.. runs fast. jumps higher.. less weapons. easier to kill. heavy.. cant jump. bigger weapons harder t okill.. slower and needs more weapon control .. medium is in the middle..
they each have to be played as if they were all different,.. you cant play a medium as a light. or a light as a heavy or a heavy as a light... im not putting down your skill but.. if you cant adjust to all of them.. then maybe your not as good as you thought...
when i play..as a light or medium.. i attack the heavies and the medics first before any of the others.. so i try to purposely take them out before anything... when i play as a heavy i stand back and just saw them down with the large mgs...

Maximus with a front-grip ... wait, what!?


I find the Chinzor to be the most effective heavy-weapon by now. Tears people apart when fired in short bursts. Much better than the Minigun because the spread is so much lower.

I prefer the maximus to the chinzor, just feels a little less bouncy. The Minigun is good for shooting at those groups of lights that try to run circles around you as you spray.

I really like the maximus, with a reflex sight its a beast, I've tried the chinzor, but I didnt like it right away..
Gonna try the EZ-nade soon, but so far i think they are pretty good if you know how to handle them.

I think everyone complaining is just due to their inability to adjust their playstyle. I am the only player in my group who runs the heavy on a regular basis. I personally find the heavy guns to be perfect for what they are meant to do. I can set a turret and mines and use my LMG to hold an area with my soldier buddies and medic buddies keeping me well buffed I rarely die and tend to rack up kills. I also play as a light operative, and have a totally different play style for that, and usually nets me very similar xp... People need to learn the classes and weapons rather than just complain because they can't use them properly.

Coming from a Med-Weight, I can understand your points. Considering the kills that I usually have is on the heavy class, and the reason why is because of mobility, Im faster than the heavy, and the MGs are pretty weak, considering it only takes down half of my health by the time I get away.