Some dev liked her better.

Probably several devs liked her better. They are computer game developers, after all.

Youch. They're gonna need some Aloe Vera for that burn.

AAARRRRNNNNGH!!!!

This thread is hurting my brain!!!!

I'm sorry but what I don't see is the harm in letting people talk about something if they want to. Obviously several here have had some thoughts on this subject and it's nice to see them airing them out. I honestly didn't think there would be much response to my initial question for some reason, and quite frankly I'm pleasantly surprised.


In regard to the Arkay's law argument, I think maybe since it applies to "men, beast-men and elves" only, the fact that Almalexia and Vivec are gods may be the deal breaker there. Arkays doesn't mention gods at all.


As for the original question of why hers is the more valuable soul, I still like the "she has briasts" argument the best so far.

Perhaps because Almalexia was a full chimer, while vivec was half Dunmer and Chimer. I suppose that would mean that Chimer are more valuable than Dunmer..after all..becoming a Dunmer was a punishment.

No. Sotha Sil "looks" Chimer as well.

The color of Vivec comes from the idea that Vehk-and-Vehk is a Duality personified.

Isn't it just that Almalexia was more loved by the people during this time, in comparison to Vivec, and the more dedicated followers they have, the stronger they are?

The idea that poetic madness and Almalexia's nature are comparable is amusing - also the question of happiness and large souls. That tends to suggest that Daeda and Dagoth's creatures are happy ... when I suspect it is that they are more manic.

Vivec presumably lost a friend and murdered the husband of the one he desired to marry - but Almalexia murdered first her husband and then her great friend Sotha-Sil ... more of a pattern there.

So if manic energy provides more power for soul gems then I think Almalexia - brain distorted by the effect of the size of her briasts or not - wins.

Vivec as you all say was likely trying to power the Ghost Fence or perhaps control and keep in focus the power of the Ancestors powering the Ghost Fence while Almalexia ran off to murder the other one who was powering the Ghost Fence? And the one who might be most opposed to her taking the necromantic power to herself ... so it appears that she got what she desired = more power and retained it to the last.

What we may never know is whether Dagoth Ur was influencing her in that - or feeding her power from the Heart in return for services rendered? A narsty speculation I know - but I see her as rotten to the core from the first.

It's not the best of Lore really.

We talk about the game world and about the way the game world is portrayed in the games, but not about what the game mechanics tell us about the world. After all that is rather pointless because the game mechanics change between each game.

Basically points on why I dislike this thread and why I think it should die...

:) Then stop feeding it after midnight!

Ha ha, exactly. I hope no one has a gun to their head forcing them to read this thread, or God(s) forbid, post in it.

I am very much enjoying the responses though. Excellent discussion!

1999's post was great.

"So if manic energy provides more power for soul gems then I think Almalexia - brain distorted by the effect of the size of her briasts or not - wins."

:thumbsup:

Vehk: Ayem was just the bigger [censored]. Case closed.

Edit: I leave it to the reader to put in whatever they want in the censored bar.

Nah, horrible. Soul gems capture the whole soul of a person as you can see in Redgaurd and the Wolf Queen, not just their manic energy what ever that is. It gets rather silly when it implies Dremora are more/just as manic then/as Scamps .

The best anwser so far is that Ayems soul is greater then Vivecs because she's like everything else in Tribunal was stronger then Vivec. The issue got confused when people assumed a persons magicka supply would be reflected in the value of the soul.

Proweller
Was simply followin the above line of argument and trying to compare - not necessarily supportin it but rather suggestin that what can be applied to happy can also be applied to other emotional states = it does not quite add up. As for Dremora and scamps - did you play Battlespire? The Scamps were not bigger creatures, but were very unhappy with their lot and somewhat rebellious - just lacking in physical strength.

Now Dremora Lords have magical power - are their souls bigger than a Twighlights? Or maybe a Golden Saint's? So that lets out 'mere' magica use.

Also you can add in various mortal creatures too and it seems that overall stats may have some bearing - physical power being only part of that and compare them to any creature of Ovlivion. And that produces a far clearer division.

It all comes back to 'killability' - how tough and how dangerous = there aint nosuch thing as a free reward!



I feel a key question that was only touched on earlier is regarding the rutual/s with the Heart? That turned them from 'ordinary' mortals into demi-gods and therefore infinitely more dangerous. What you cannot say for sure is what size soul they had before they became demi-gods - but I would imagine far smaller! As they were nowhere near as powerful then.

I suspect that the power you can draw for the Heart is NOT ordinary magica! It does not look like magica. It does not act like magica. It is on a different order of things - though magica is a small constituent of it. So I reckon the dreamer Vekh drew far less power from the Heart because he was not so Warrior-like, nor as greedy. He just went along with the currents around him = more of his ambivalence. Almalexia knew what she wanted and had murdered her husband to get it and she went straight for it and grabbed all she could get. She later murdered Soth-Sil because he had scruples and was a phsyjic

I think she always was a powermad crazy. Nerevar was not one of the great Indorils at the start - he became acknowledged as a great general so she married him lest he threaten her pre-eminent position as leader of Indoril - and when he got in her way to further power - the power of a Goddess (with big breaths) she disposed of him. What she was? Was more dangerous than Vekh - she held more power and therefore looked and felt more everthing that she wanted to look and feel - so when she made nice to 'the people' they felt a great sense of relief = the big carnivore is purring - how beautiful and loving it is Let us stroke and pet it and tell it we love it and it will not eat us ... so the reward for capturing her soul is greater. But also danger = the true measure of a soul because if a creature is dangerous it is powerful.

This makes power both mechanic rule and in-game philosophy - a good match

Maybe the question isn't "Why is Almalexia's bigger?" but rather "Why should we expect them to be equal?"

Probably because they are both part of the Tribunal and derive their powers from the same source. Not that it'd actually make them equal, of course.

also because we had not thought to turn the question on its head

I would assume it would raise their initial powers and abilities by the same multiplier but that wouldn't necessarily make them "equals" once they received the power up. In status as God-Kings they're equal, more or less, but that probably does not or need not translate into "power levels" and other such things. And didn't MK once say that such comparisons to God powers are a bit silly and not in the true spirit of ES anyway?

Point taken, but just to be clear here, I did not say his post was right.... I said it was "great"

:D


On a slightly different note but on the same topic of trapped souls and their relative worth, here's something I find interesting as well --- I just completed Bloodmoon, and while doing so I trapped not only the frost giant's soul but also Hircine's aspect. Both put up a very good fight, both were hard to kill. If they're not actual "gods" themselves they are definitely close to it, especially the aspect.

Anyway, to my utter amazement, both of their souls went into a greater soul gem rather than a grand, and both were worth less than that of a rickling raider or one of those squealing tusker pigs.

Some very odd logic went into that decision. Those values seem to be one of if not the most imbalanced things in the game I've found so far.

They were still fun to fight and soul trap though. I put those two soulgems on a display shelf in my new factor's estate. B)

I wonder if it's the same reason that blighted creatures have higher soul values than their non-blighted counterparts.

Well its entirely possible after all. As even one of her closest aides a hand of Almalexia called her evil (along with a large selection of choice words).

NO NECROMANCY!

He doesn't call her evil, he just says that she's changed and is now obsessed with power where before she had been loving, if she was getting power from Ur she wouldn't be in the predicament she is. She may have been crazy, but she wasn't siding with Ur...

Necromancer... :poke: