:banghead:

How can soul of one who can't die, be trapped? Or should we not believe what Vivec said that they can't die? Or was he just bluffing possibly blood-thirsty player (worked for me in that case). Same goes for Daedra. And as daedra's souls are trapped all the time, so is soul just part of current body, while there is something else which holds memories when body gets reduced to dust and one experiences "joys" of afterlife. I don't remember reading about it... Or does it just mean that those who's souls have been stored to soul gem are not coming back anymore? Atleast without soul getting released from soulgem.

I'm not very good at understanding these kind of lores. It needs to be plain english without fancy words for me to get it.

Okay: It's gameplay. There is no reason.

Now that really adds to it - plus with all the stuff about Vivec and CHIMp the whole thing returns with a new slant I guess ...

So we trapped Vivec's Soul - but an earlier post states that you cannot trap part of a soul - so if Vivec had achieved CHIMp then he is soul-trapped in my little Soul Gem (he still is in one save game) and was not available for Hogithum Hall - another point that makes The Trial so unsatisfying. Nope, I think on balance that if CHIMp was as stated then soul-trapping Vivec's soul would not have been an in-game option - rather hard to make your self/soul one with the all when you are stuck in a Soul Gem and we would have bounced when we attacked Vivec too. There was no need for Vivec to pretend to be helpless in that way to fool Almalexia when other ways would have given the same result without the need for him to die.

MK saying that comparing soul sizes is not in the spirit of ES is fair enough on the face of it - however:



Adornacil's point then comes to the fore and if 'it's only gameplay' then what is Lore? What makes Lore?

You see I always felt that Lore is what I have found in previous games - and good lore adds up to adding some kind of meaning to the 'gameplay' - making the 'gameplay' into Lore. Add to that when a Dev adds an explanation out of game that makes sense of the Lore in game and the gameplay (since we are noting a possible difference) then that becomes part of the Lore rather than optional ideas for future development.

When a Dev or even several Devs create something that is full things that contradict known Lore, gameplay and game experience then it's an Easter Egg or some-such, maybe even an experiment - but it is not really Lore unless or until it gets into a future game. I am happy with the idea that a bunch of devs decided to have a bit of fun - oog. They all agreed the terms on which they would roleplay their bit of fun, but I do not see the Trial as a successful ammendation of current thinking. Why?

When looked at in serious terms (as many have stated) there is a huge gap in the Lore - different soul sizes are not simply/only gameplay - souls are such an important part of ES because Souls are real in-game and in-lore and there are various facets that have an effect and there is a lot of stuff in books in-game that seriously concerns them. So far better to state in mysterious terms that the nature of souls is not entirely understood by mortals and no God or Deadroth has seen fit to enlighten anyone ...


But I will offer a thought that may be satisfying to some - try it as a question of recycling: what if the size of a soul has to do with not only with deeds and factors in present, but also in past existances? Would that help?

Okay, reviving an old thread as this topic is really interesting. I think after reading through all the theorizing why Almalexia's soul is bigger than Vivecs an answer can be reached.

Here is how it went down:
Almalexia: "Hey magister, what is this black soul gem?"
Magister: "My lady that is an evil instrument of necromancers. It would be best to destroy it."
Almalexia: "Hmm, I wonder if Sotha knows anything about it. I think I will take a trip to see him."
Magister: "My lady, please reconsider. That is a dangerous artifact. Even Arkay's light does not shine when one of those is present."
Almalexia: "Oh magister, I think Sotha and myself will be fine."
Narrator: A little bit later Almalexia meets up with Sotha.
Sotha: "What brings you here Almalexia?"
Almalexia: "Well I found this black soul gem."
Sotha: "My goodness. I had heard, but I did not know these existed. Where did you find this?"
Almalexia: "Oh, I was rummaging through some things Manimarco left before he went to Cyrrodil. He was quite grumpy when he left."
Sotha: "Well, lets see what this is all about then."
Almalexia: "Sounds like fun."
Sotha: "I noticed one thing. That when I hold it my hand feels cold. I feel like it is pulling at my life force."
Almalexia: "Woe, that sounds weird. I thought you had to activate a gem to get that effect. That certainly is different."
Sotha: "I will get the apparatus and spells to really test this thing out."
Narrator: Sotha went ahead and got everything setup. He got all his electrical and mechanical apparatus setup. He knew he could not be affected by a soul trap as Arkay protected him. So he made the decision to hold the soul gem and have Almalexia soul trap the scrib they were going to experiment with. He didn't want to get knocked down so he harnessed himself into the apparatus and held the scrib in one hand and the black soul gem in the other.
Sotha: "Almalexia, when I say go I want you to soul trap the scrib and I will hit is with a shock spell. Okay?"
Almalexia: "Alright, I am ready."
Sotha: "Go!"
Narrator: Well, the next few moments turned out to be not so good for Sotha or Almalexia. You see Almalexia was not in good practice on soul trapping and soul trapped both the scrib and Sotha. Sotha, did do a good job of zapping the scrib, and would have been fine, except the soul gem started svcking his life force a bit. This scared Sotha and he made one mistake. He dropped the gem and grabbed a live conductor of his apparatus out of reflex. This sent a really strong shock that mixed with his own spell and zapped the crap out of him. The soul gem dutifully continued to svck up any life force in the vicinity and killed him. For some reason though the scrib did not die, but minus its soul it just mindlessly began eating Sotha. Almalexia screamed and started freaking out. She grabbed the black soul gem and tried to figure out a way to reanimate Sotha. The gem was still charged and began pulling her life force a bit as well. So she stuck it in Sotha's mouth and tried her last option. A resurrect spell she had found in Manimarcos belongings. This was disastrous. Because she was not versed in the arts of necromancy the souls from the gem shot out and entered her body mixing with her own. The black soul gem crumbled to dust. Almalexia lay twitching on the ground for some time trying to figure out who she was. She had become mish-mash of 3 souls which drove her mad.

So, this answers the reason why Almalexia had a larger soul than Vivec. Now, the real question of all this is this: Why can't you soul trap Dagoth Ur? Is it perhaps the judgment of Arkay favored Dagoth Ur for what went down during the battle for Red Mountain? What did Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil leave out in their account of what happened?

Ancient thread but...

Nice theory there

But, really, the reaon, imo, is because of gameplay. She was just more "boss" like than Vivec. But, of course, that's boring.

My other, slightly more fun, theory is that Vivec's soul was spent powering the Ghostfence. A large portion of his divine power had been drained doing so. Almalexia, on the other hand, didn't help with that, and just floated there in her palace all day long.

I like your idea too. The one I presented was supposed to be funny and humorous since she was wacko before she killed Sotha Sil. I mean isn't part of the quest to retrieve a ring for her so she can go kill Sotha? Anyway, I am sure it is game mechanics. I was very disappointed that I could not soul trap Dagoth Ur. It totally messed up my Dagoth soul gem collection. That is something I really miss from Oblivion too. It was kind of fun to collect the souls of your enemies. Now with black soul gems you can get everyone! Could you imagine a soul gem collection of every persistent character in Cyrodill.

Unfortunatly, it doesn't work the same as Morrowind. Now, if my gems where named after the creature/NPC I had trapped, then we'd be going somewhere!

Yet vivec had 10k spell points and almalexia had 1,500 in the editor view.

That user doesn't exist anymore. Why correct him?

Because it's a discussion. It's what we do. Someone is probably going to start something up with Henry's comment.

why didn't this apply to this thread?

But i'm glad it was re-animated. It is an interesting thread. I believe it is because she is a warrior-Queen while He is a poet-assassin. a warrior has a bigger soul than an assassin, (based on goblins) and a Queen probably has a bigger soul than a poet/netchfarmer.

I think that it was because of CHIM. This isn't a very well formed thought because I'm tired, but it seems to me that Vivec, because of that whole "I am everything" thing, would have less of his soul contained in his individual body. Like, his soul is spread out through *everything*, and not just in him. Er. Or something.

Ok.

Well, she certainly has a much bigger ego than Vivec.

As far as who is stronger, I'll post stats abilities and spells... It looks to me here that the reason for Almalexia's low magicka reserve seems to actually be all the protective abilities she's got active. Vivecs got far less, so that may be the reason his magicka reserve is higher. Almalexia may be more powerful (higher soul value of 1,500) but she's burning threw her powers way faster being mad with power lust. Besides lowered magicka reserves she has 500 less stamina with 1,500 fatigue and would have weaker punches with attacks being 100-100 instead of vivecs 100-400 (assuming that's for hand to hand combat). So possibly in hand to hand fighting Vivecs better but Almalexia makes up for this with a sword.

I think I'd like to see a fight between them both made some how to see who would actually win in a fight. I think Vivec may actually out last Almalexia's spell casting and eventually kill Almalexia with Vivec's greater magicka reserves.

Vivec

Stats

Level 100

Health 3,000
Spell pts (magicka) 10,000
Fatigue 2,000
Soul 1,000

Str 100
Int 100
Wil 100
Agi 100
Spd 70
End 100
Luc 100

Combat 100
Magic 100
Stealth 100
Min Max
Attack 1 100 400
Attack 2 100 400
Attack 3 100 400

Vivec Abilties
Fort Str 100
Fort Attack 50

Wrath of Vivec
Dmg Health target Mag 50
Fire Dmg target Mag 50
Shock Dmg target Mag 50
Frost Dmg target Mag 50

Cost 94

Hand of Vivec

Dmg Health touch 3 sec Mag 50
Fire Dmg touch 3 sec Mag 50
Frost Dmg touch 3 sec Mag 50
Shock Dmg touch 3 sec Mag 50

Cost 188

Almalexia

Stats

Level 100

Health 3,000
Spell pts (magicka) 1,500
Fatigue 1,500
Soul 1,500

Str 100
Int 100
Wil 100
Agi 100
Spd 80
End 100
Luc 100

Combat 100
Magic 100
Stealth 100
Min Max
Attack 1 100 100
Attack 2 100 100
Attack 3 100 100

Almaxia's abilties

Regen Restore health 1-5 constant
Resist Shock 50%
Resist Paralysis 100%
Resist Magicka 50%
Resist Frost 50%
Immune to Poison
Immune to Normal Weapons
Immune to Fire
Immune to Disease

Almalexia's Wrath

Absorb Health target area 40 mag 40
Fire Dmg target area 40 Mag 100
Weakness to Fire target area 40 5 secs mag 75

Cost 150

Almaxia's sword

Hopes Fire

Weight 15

Health 2000
Speed 1.35
Enchant 100
Reach 1

Chop 30-70
Slash 50-55
Thrust 10-30

Enchant reserve 100
Shock dmg 30 cost 5

Gentlemen, have we an answer?

Well, in the making of my companion mod for helping me learn the editor, an unchanged almalexia (aside from follow commands etc) seems to usually beat vivec. Sometimes though she gets stuck on the steps of the inner ring near vivecs platform he hovers over and can't get to the outer most ones next to the wall allowing vivec to pummel her with ranged attacks preventing her from wailing on him with her sword.

Sometimes she still wins but because of getting stuck in the center ring he can win. Funny how a "god" character isn't smart enough to lift those legs to get up some steps... allowing a defeat. Unsure what allows vivec to get up the steps of the outer ring while almalexia doesn't.

Hm, then perhaps give them an open, free space to fight. Then that will be great. Oh, and record it. And add epic music. lol

I know this thread is old, but I just had a thought.

When they learned that they would slowly become mortal and someday die, each of the Tribunal gods reacted differently. Vivec, in his manner of calm acceptance, chose to continue helping the Dunmer as long as he could, acting among the people and powering the Ghostfence as he waited for the hero. Sotha Sil retreated to his clock tower, also accepting his mortality and deciding to experiment with other ways around it, and his success or failure is left open. Meanwhile, Almalexia turned to denial, then madness. In her madness, she grew strong with determination to maintain her godhood, and the fire of her determination made her soul more reactive and malleable for use in enchantment.

I was under the impression the pawnbrokers guild cornered the god market and had it out for Almalexia, posting a higher bounty. The sload were pulling the guild's strings, Sotha Sil knew this, and Almelexia knew he knew everything she didn't, and so Almelexia had come to Sil, to learn who'd been stalking her. She was a little rough. He didn't tell her, as he begrudged her for being a [censored], for not defending her husband, and sleeping with Dagoth, Vivec, and himself. His respect was hard to earn.

I think it's just because she's always been the better god (false), if u think of it, Alma is protected by the Hands, and what protects Vivec? a petty 100 lock spell and a trapped spell which can be probed by a slave, lol Plus, she holds Hopesfire, which destroys. Vs. Vivec with like this wierdo spell that i could cast at lvl 4.

My answer: Game mechanics.

Wifes answer: She had boobs = automatic victory and more score.

So according to your wife, Vivec is loosing the fights with Almalexia, because Vivec's too mesmerized by Almalexia's lady lumps?

I personally think its the sword... if Vivec had a sword and maybe a Regen spell/ability it might be more equally matched I rarely see Vivec use hand to hand which can do a max of 400 minimum of 100. He casts spell all the time... If he punched some that would be damage that wouldn't be reduced or blocked by some of her spell resistance abilities.

Added a bit latter: Removing Vivec's touch cast spell might force him to punch, I'll try that.

Her briasts, you mean? Vivec can grow his/her own. Vivec can invent genders, and take them for a spin.