This a million times. It really burns me up how it's the cool thing to do to make every American and European historical figure look like some kind of demon, and anyone from another part of the world some misunderstood victim.


And yes, other people did get to America before him but their influence was absolutely zero. As in none. Columbus Day is celebrated for the influence he had, not the kind of person he was.


As far as the topic goes, I really have never seen anyone Celebrate Columbus Day. I think even the banks are open if I am not mistaken.


The hatred in this thread is just sad.

That's how I always feel, fantasyjunkie. I mean, wow, how dare those selfish Americans and greedy Europeans want to learn, understand, and admire historical figures from their culture. Nelson= MONSTER! Beethoven= Uh...I'm sure he was a MONSTER! Lincoln= MONSTER!! Mark Twain= Uh, I'm sure he was a MONSTER!! It's trendy apparently to paint every American and European historical figure as evil racist, sixist scumbags without considering the times they lived in, and the morality they believed in. Of course it's abhorrent to us now, us 21st-century people. But back then, it was all they knew, of course it made sense! It was literally all they knew. Doesn't make them all monsters. And even then, there were plenty of people within history who had very modern-day morality. They were just the minority at the time.

So go forth my fellow Americans and European friends. Go forth and enjoy reading and studying historical figures from your own culture. Columbus wins the prize for this one was because it was due to him that other conquistadors went over, and that bloomed into settlements and so on. So even though he didn't actually DISCOVER the landmass that would become America, he still earns major props.

In the academic world its publish or perish. If all you have to offer is a rehash of existing history you will not make a name for yourself. So you need to discover, or create, the 'new' history.

Columbus had both contemporary admirers and detractors. Historians with an agenda will source the one that fits.

Yea... Usually I do but these weren't on the same page so I could not get it done. Sorry about that

There's a lot of that going on here in Oxford with some statue of Rhodes. Admittedly a bit of a controversial chap by today's standards, but I can't help notice a certain irony of largely foreign students coming here and trying to tell the locals what they're allowed to do. I'm sure there's a word for that.

That tends to be the cool thing to do these days. People are offended by things our country did, so they come to our country and act offended. It you see a turd on the street, don't roll about in it saying how much you hate it, step over it!

It all boils down to: colonialism = bad

White people = bad


If you're white western civilization citizen, you should feel guilty for things other white colonists did hundreds of years ago.


Every new generation wants a revolution and change the world, now that there's little conflict or tangible things to fight for in western civilization, they have to attack any small injustice they can find and blame it on evil corporate racist white people.

It's just the trend these days. As The Sentinel noted, if you're a white person from the Western world, then you should be ashamed for things that you never did, things that were committed centuries ago. And it's not just colored people pulling the 'white guilt' card. Even white people make videos going on and on about how bad the whites were, how we hurt everyone not part of the overall 'Western Civilization'.


The only person I can feel shame for and apologize for is myself. I didn't own slaves, so how can I apologize for that? I never colonized anyone, so how can I apologize? Simple, I can't. I can't apologize for things I never did.


It's like no one is interested in the middle ground, recognizing the good while condemning the bad. No, we're all either horrid demons, or holy saints.

Haven't peeked in this thread since I started it.


I'm not saying we need to demonize him. I'm just saying we are not taught the truth in school. How is that okay? It's okay to be lied to in our sacred place of learning and growth to fit our governments agenda and were supposed to just say "lol whelp"? That's really [censored] up.

Great point! Mom did not install my "guilt buttons" very well

I had to "fix" that last line, though. I think even Mother Teresa is hard pressed to be considered a "Saint" by some of these people, even though she was sainted recently

Spot on. We could point to any great figure in history, and find a whole slew of terrible things. Just take a look at Ghandi or even Washington.


Columbus wasn't the embodiment of evil. He was a product of the early renaissance era over 500 years ago. He was a complex individual like any of us who went on a brave journey across the ocean to places unknown. What he did after wasn't brave nor courageous, but it's hard to hold it against him when many others were doing the same.

Actually no. Apparently it's the history you're speaking of though I said precisely what I wanted to say in what you responded to: The schools should teach actual history and either omit or correct anything that's an outright lie or misleading information.

I know the history that was recorded by the people who were there, including Columbus himself. So yes, I would say that is more of a true version of the past than something that's well known to be falsities.

"Or is it picking and choosing what 'fits your agenda'"? Now that is an absolutely hilarious accusation. I would say that if anyone has an "agenda" based on their postings in this thread it would be you. I simply mentioned that history ought to be taught properly and if it's simply being taught for social lessons, then it can be accomplished through different, true recollections of the past.

In any case, I've made my point and there isn't really any reason to pursue this further.

Its more of a celebration of the idea Columbus represented, rather than the man himself. Exploration discovery etc.

A better name for the day might be "Americas Day" or "New World Day" or something. To commemorate the discovery of the Americas. But I suppose even that would probably draw ire.

Nobody really celebrates it though. Beyond maybe getting a day off.

Thank god, nobody asked : Why do Americans celebrate St Patricks Day!

No man is an Ireland.

I honestly cannot recall anyone celebrating it or getting a day off. As far as I know, it's just a spot on the calander.

I always thought that History class was there to introduce the broad strokes of history, and it was up to the student to learn more if they were interested. I learned more outside of school than I ever did in. History is different to each person. One mans saint, is another mans sinner.

Thanks for that much needed levity in this all-too-serious discussion(?)

Good call! I'll follow suit

Leif Erikson Day, should be a day where everyone gets online and tries to comment first on something by saying "First!"

....

Wait, people already do that? Every day too? [censored]s.

I think this is part of the problem. Columbus did not discover the Americas. The Americas were already discovered. People traveled across the land bridge from Siberia or island-hopped across the pacific (or both) long before 1492. These people are the ones who discovered the Americas, not Columbus or Leif Erikson.

I think it annoys a great many people that the actual discoverers of the Americas are ignored, treated as though they didn't exist, while all the fame and glory is awarded to people who arrived thousands of years later.

I like your idea of renaming it "Americas Day." That could be a way to honor all of the people who discovered the continent.

isn't that an issue that comes with alot of things?



society regularly seems to give credit for discoveries or inventions to certain individuals, even though the person who should be given the credit lived dozens or even hundreds of years prior..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx5G-GOS1k

Pretty much how it goes when more "civilized" people meets someone they beileve to be beneath them. Winners write history, not the losers. Not saying it is the way to behave, just how it went in a lot (if not all) that sort of cases.

Bingo. It's a flat out lie and no one cares our children are being flat out lied to?

This forum needs some fresh topics...something as meaningless as Columbus Day has 5 pages and counting

I'm skeptical not cynical, especially when there's 2 "credible" sources with different translations.

That's it. But think of the children I would rather be taught some semblance of the truth instead of more lies to make the U.S look better. I will admit, it is great fun chatting with friends from other countries and having a laugh over how filled with propaganda it is.