I was wondering how flexible Skyrim really is. I'm sure what I'm going to suggest now won't be included in ANY way, however, it IS a VERY interesting idea.

My thoughts are about what if I don't want to fight? And I don't mean in the sense of "Just buy a house in a village, work and play Sims-like Skyrim", because TRUST me, I don't want to... What I'm talking about is, if I want to complete the main quest without having to fight, will I be able to do it?

Think about it, how complex it will make the main story of this game, adding tons of new options, just to give you other ways of passing through the main quest, your OWN style. I mean, why do we have to fight? It is a RP game, isn't it? It's also an action game, of course, but mostly RP (I hope, at least).

Now, some will say that it's not necessary, or that it takes lots of development time, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about actually having the option(s) to complete the main quest/quests without having to fight. How will it be benefit the game? What are the disadvantages? How can it be expended?

Skyrim is about playing your OWN style, and I don't think it only has to come down to fighting styles. While of course I'm planning on fighting, I was just wondering if such a system (which was NEVER tried before) could be implemented.

VERY, EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTE: Don't post the obvious... like: "There's not enough development time for it to be done" or "I would rather have them invest their time on other things" or "It's not necessary". I want constructive, helpful comments, comments that will either disagree with this system by reffering to the disadvantages WITHIN the system, and not through development time/money/investment, or will support this system and expand the idea somehow, or any other thoughts.

It's actually not an interesting idea. So there you go. You are probably the smallest of niches. I'd probably call it a fetish if I were to speak freely.

You ever read that blog about playing oblivion as a pacifist? It's a pretty interesting read you should check it out. But on topic I don't think beth will cater to this style of play simply because it's so uncommon but it will orobabbly be possibel but very difficult and obviously it will probably conflict with quests where your specific goal is to kill someone.

I think the problem is that some people actually want to kill you in this game;

I will certainly try to avoid as much combat as possible with Illusion spells.

1. Master Illusion
2. Learn Calm Dragon Spell
3. ???
4. Profit

You see? THAT is a thought I like

Charleay: You're actually right, however if we had more options concerning ways of how to react, such as... I don't know, like Faulgor mentioned, illusion spells, or negotiate with our enemies, and such. I don't think it's REALLY possible to go through the entire game without fighting, my question is, can we go through the main quest without fighting?

Well let us look at this philosophically.

Your character is faced with life-or-death situations many times in TES games. This makes for some interesting possibilities and some impassable roadblocks for a pacifist way of playing the game.
I don't want to delve too deeply into what would happen so let us skip the smaller confrontations that could easily have alternate ways to complete a quest programmed in.
Ok, fine. That's great. You sneak, steal, poison, do whatever you want to do other that fighting to win.
No problems so far...

But now we start some of the major confrontations in the game. Some could have alternate ways to win, but no matter what, you will eventually face down an opponent that, because of lore, would never compromise their situation, would not accept you as an ally, and would not allow you to live (holy run on sentence). All hero stories have this confrontation. Without this life-or death struggle, there is no real story.

When you are working with the scale of a TES game, and the themes that run with it, the player is almost always forced to resort to fighting to win eventually. Not fighting removes the player as the main character in the story, which most games are not so eager to do.

"The pen is mightier than the sword"

[img]http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4192/lolan.png[/img]

Hmmmmm , don't think thats gonna work out

sure be a pacifist your opponent wont have any wounds to heal once they are done killing you.

This [censored] cracks me up. People think the term "RPG" means "I WANT TO DO EVERYTHING I WANT THE WAY I WANT IT!!"

"When I play Skyrim I want to get married and have children. I want to get a job. I want to have a banking system set up which supports investments, real estate transactions, and interest-bearing accounts. I want to complete the main quest without ever drawing blood. I want to be able to establish my own shop which specializes in cross-stitch needlework. It's an RPG so every option under the sun should be made available to me!"

RPG does not mean "life simulator".

Stop fighting...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcZ85YoeR6w.

While I agree there should be more speech related workarounds, there definitely should be some combat you just can't avoid.

Not necessarily.

I agree that I have yet to see a GAME where the hero won't resort to violence. However there are many movies out there (action/adventure movies) that present us with such a main character, which won't resort to fighting unless it's 100% unavoidable.

I don't think they should give us a way of COMPLETELY not fighting throughout the entire game, but maybe through some portion of it? So it could feel like we're not just hacking and slashing our way through places?

Boppo, The-Raider: Can you provide a link to this article?

I think too many people/creatures are out to get you, for you to make this work... And, I understand the want is there. But, they can't cater to every little want and need... :shrug:.

Its easy to play like that:

DONT
-go in caves/dungeons
-take part in quests
-interact with NPCs (never know what theyll do)

YOU CAN
-fast travel everywhere
-read

For something like Skyrim it is going to be nearly impossible for you to be a pacifist dragonborn. Also it has been clearly stated that if you fought not much at all throughout the game, the game will look at that and be like:"O he hasn't fought dragons at all :shakehead: so I'm to have to a pack of three dragons near his location to get his attention :chaos: ." So trying to play through the game without fighting is going to be very hard.

No one said I'm demanding it... seriously... What was so horrible in your life concerning RPGs that you react in such a way? o.O I imagine it was horrible.

Role-Playing, that's enough to describe the genre. For example: I HATE to see marriage in the game, I don't want to open a shop and I don't want a banking system.
Why? Because there are different types of RPGs, it's a rather big category... believe it or not...
When I'm saying "What if we had more options, to choose our path?", I think it's a VERY reasonable and not exaggurated suggestion. Really now, what if we had the option to NOT hack and slash throughout the entire game? But only in some portion of it? (respecting the fact that there ARE situations you can't avoid fighting)

Sorry for the previous post - just annoyed with what some people are suggesting like they have a right to have these wildly random game systems included - like it's owed them somehow.

To be more on topic - no, you shouldn't be able to complete the game without ever fighting. An RPG game like that would certainly be interesting, but I doubt there's enough of a demand for it. And it will certainly never happen with TES.

That being said, I always appreciate it when game developers allow for more than one way to finish a quest, and I think more quests (even in TES) should take advantage of that. Games like Thief and Deus Ex did a fantastic job of that. In Thief you could earn quest bonuses by remaining unseen or by not killing anyone. It encouraged patience and thought.

If Skyrim could incorporate more quests that give the player a choice, I'd appreciate it. It would add to replay value as well. Your Warrior had to bash the guy's skull in, but your Thief could sneak around him and your Mage could charm or disable him.

Now we're thinking the same way

Some of the responses in this thread would be enough to make a developer give up on role playing, and start making action/adventure games instead. :whistling:

Oh GOD, I HOPE NOT :cryvaultboy:

:nope: :dead: :prod:

Oh I see it now:

In the end game, speaking to alduin:

Dialogue option: "Bribe with 1000 gold to leave nirn".

:shakehead:


That said, both morrowind and oblivion were very much combat focused and Skyrim will be just like them in that sense.

That's one thing I liked about New Vegas, My diplomatic courier usually found a way to bring peace when the option was there, although there were sometimes where he had to fight (which is why he also invested his time in learning to use energy weapons properly). I think diplomatic solutions to conflicts would be a great way to give speechcraft a good use besides powering illusion magic.

NV did a pretty good job at this. For TES, get your sneak skill up high enough and most combat is avoidable. :thumbsup:

Only joking of course, but there is a time and a place for this sort of thing, the Thieves' Guild being the perfect and obvious example. I would love it if there was a joinable bard's faction, if diplomacy could be used with the holds, and speechcraft was actually useful for some quests.

On the other hand though, the Companions should require some serious skull crushing ability, to be the Arch Mage in Winterhold really should need more than a few fireballs, and if your killing skills aren't up to it, then may I suggest the Main Quest might need at least some serious enchanted armour, and a staff of destruction with a load of soul gems.

But it isn't a good or reasonable suggestion at all because you're implying the ability to essentially talk things over with Alduin over tea. I can see this ideology in some aspects of the game, such as telling the Bandit that's trying to rob you to kindly [censored] off - and he does just that. But, as far as completing the main quest which involves the need to kill Dragons in order to acquire their souls, it just isn't a reasonable suggestion at all. I mean can you imagine the scenario when you run into a dragon? "Excuse me, I need your soul." I don't imagine that would go over too well with him and if anything, it'll just encourage him to kill you right there and then as if it wasn't bad enough that he was out to get you in the first place.