From the recent Gameinformer podcast it is pretty much said that the dragons in Skyrim will be the big "baddies/evil" of the game. He also laughed when asked about having a dragon mount as though it was absurd/above TES. This is something that I was really hoping was simply a red herring of the game/teaser, something that later on in the story would be turned on it's head and treated more unique then most fantasy games have done in the past.

In TES lore dragons are said to be very intelligent creatures, who are able to communicate to people if they wish. In the past dragons have even gave aide at times to people along with people helping them in return. Dragons have also, gasp, been ridden in TES lore. No it wasn't a common sight, but it IS part of the lore and has happened before. I admit I am not a master lore buff, but from information I know and have looked up, is there a reason that all the dragons are evil in Skyrim? It just seems to go against their own lore if every single one is evil, I can understand some for various reasons within the story, but all dragons period? Seems a bit too simple to me.

To me having dragons be "EVIL!!1" is extremely cliche in fantasy in general. Especially when it comes to games. Almost any game that features dragons, especially rpgs, they are treated with the same disdain as your general aggressive animal/creature. Big and powerful yes, but generally coming off as nothing more then another trophy creature to kill in the game with no real depth behind ithem.

I was hoping that with Skyrim they would rise above the usual cliche fantasy dragons. Actually make them complex intelligent beings that throughout the story you get thrown into with you come to learn and uncover more about them . Along with having dragons that could be good, bad, or even a bit of both depending on the type of player you choose to be. To me when it comes to rpgs in general, I like stories that are less direct and have a great deal of mystery and complex characters to get intertwined within the story. It's part of what I like about your more general mature oriented rpgs lately.

They could still be intelligent and complex beings. They just also want you dead. Nothing evil about that. Not necessarily at least.

Also I'm not entirely sure that there aren't going to be any friendly dragons, just that dragons are going to be a big enemy type. That doesn't mean there aren't some that are nice. You can, for example, summon at least one to fight for you. That counts for something, right?

EDIT: Also, they have their own language. Pretty big display of intelligence right there.

Pretty sure there is a Dragon Shout that is actually the name of a dragon, who then must come and aid you. At least I believe I read that in GI.

I did not understood Todd's comment like that. Merely formidable, terrifying creatures - not "evil", more having a complex logic, motives alien to those of humans.

I can get behind the sentiment. I wish to be awed by them, not get to understand them ; riding them would just seem to lower their status. It's hard to feel alarm and awe at a dragon attack if later on, you can just hitch a ride.

And we know they are capable of actual conversations with the player, because the audio director was talking about finding voice actors for them in the GI video.

I agree.

I believe there is more of a twist about dragons/alduin in skyrim,than just that they are evil.

I agree with you 100%. I am a bit disappointed to hear that dragons are probably going to be more like (the mindless and aggressive) wildlife instead of a sentient being. But, who knows, maybe Beth will surprise us and give them some depth.



This is reassuring.

They are "evil" because people believe them to be. But thats because they are threatened. And evil is a pathetic word to label those who have more power over you.

Dragons are intelligent in TES. Intelligent enough to have their own language, and to communicate with human beings (to the extent that some have been willing to do so, historically.) However in this case, these aren't "dragons." These are "THE dragons." The ones which at one time drove both man and mer before their might, feared by all. Only through the covenant with St Allessia was the world spared. That covenant is broken, and faith in Akatosh, like the Empire itself, has waned. These dragons are the herald of the return of Alduin, the World Eater. The destroyer aspect of the god of time (with Akatosh being the creator and sustainer aspect.)

They could only ever - to be lore accurate - be monsterous, feared creatures in my opinion. It isn't about good and evil. It's about their nature, and the nature of Alduin. The destroyer.

I have removed religious discussions which is never allowed on this forum and a flame. Don't call someone names...not ever, even if you believe it true. Just leave out the judgments and discuss the topic.

Why'd my post disappear? I liked it! The only religion I remember mentioning was that of Alduin/Akatosh... Can I haz my post back?
*moderator note: because you called someone ignorant and are lucky not to have found out by via a warning :nono:
Anyway... I'm voting "Cliched Evil Dragons" because I'd rather not have our nemesis be drug down so low that they'd consider the plentiful scum on the surface of Nirn, which they are divinely tasked to destroy, to be equal enough to them to have empathy for us. They are above us.

The Jills of Akatosh/Alduin are here to destroy the world, because that must be done before it can be remade. There's no "Nirn must be destroyed because the people on it are EVIL or otherwise unfit to live. They must destroy the world because it's necessary, regardless if the world was a benign utopia of perfection, cooperation, and happiness on its way to greater things, or a retched hive of desperation and depravity.

Even if there are "good" and "Bad" dragons, their objective is still at odds with Tamriel's existence. So, always enemies, no matter how noble or complex they are.

If dragons who attack villages shouldn't be considered evil, because they're "just doing what dragons do". Then no one can consider it evil of the humans slaughtering dragons, because that simply what they do.

Ah, there were some nice moments in The Witcher, where an enemy will justify their wanton cruelty the same way, only to have Geralt say something along the lines of "Cut the moral relativistic act, I'm not buying a single word you are saying."

K it's been a while so don't hate but I liked the dragon in both 'Farmer giles of Ham' and 'The Hobbit' I know Smaug was the dragon in Hobbit but I think it was the same name in the other book. It wasn't a RAWR RAWR type dragon, more of an intellectually stated "I'm going to eat you now" kind of way.

So, I like my dragons intelligent. Like mama bears who only attack when hungry or protecting their young, and in the case of dragons, also their treasure. In Skyrim I hope the treasure cliche doesn't exist, at least not as prominently in literary culture. Perhaps a trinket that the dragon is supposed to have OR maybe the power of the dragon's soul is reward enough.

I am not so certain I would classify the dragons as being evil either, I think it is more a comparison of order and chaos really. Alduin is more a force of chaos that is bringing order back to the world, so at best the dragons are agents of chaos.

In this case, their purpose is to destroy all life on Nirn, so it can be remade.

There's good dragons, todd said you can summon them too fight for you.

Because you are crunchy and taste good with catsup.

Sounds like Alduin will be the final boss (could be a twist though) if this is the case then ofcourse the dragons would bend to his will or atleast most of them. The fact you can "Call a dragon" to help you in combat however leads me to beleive that there are not ALL bad dragons.


The twist..

Alduin is not the evil one infact he's really just trying to purify the land of Shors (god of the Underworld) aka Lorkhan (The Missing God) (The Trickster) of his plot to destroy or control the world but seeing as he's the trickster he has brain washed so many mortals into beleveing he's the savior and creator of man however I think we've seen in action that Akatosh aka Alduin is really not so bad right? So why are we fighting the one person that's actually trying to save us? Simple... we are brain washed and the only way we are going to find out the truth is in death.

end.

Well said.

As far as I can tell, the dragons are sort of a precursor or herald to the arrival of Alduin. They are on a mission, perhaps. If so, this likely doesn't include befriending the Dragonborn, whom they fear. I don't see anything cliche about that.

I suppose I can understand the OP's disappointment if he had his heart set on riding a dragon, but the idea that evil dragons are cliche is like saying evil zombies or good angels are cliche. Sure evil dragons have been done before, but the nature of Skyrim's dragons is far from worn out.

Or possibly Alduin/Akatosh "helped" people by saving us from Mehrunes Dagon's Invasion, but in the process conveniently got rid of the last Septim. If you read one of Michael Kirkbride's posts it all makes sense. Things to remember when reading this: Doom Drum is Lorkhan/Shors, Talos is Tiber Septim, Alduin (who we know it the "bad guy" in this game) is Akatosh, and Martin Septim was the last "Son of Talos"

To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.

To achieve this goal, we must:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.

3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.


Essentially Akatosh could have helped Martin in order to be able to destroy all of humanity without fear of being stopped by a DragonBorn, and thus free the Aedra from the material plane which the Trickster/Doom Drum/Lorkhan/Shors created by binding all the Aedra to it to provide the life force humans and animals needed.

I wished there would be some friendly ones. Since they're depicted as such intelligent beings who theoretically can be reasoned with, I'm already feeling bad for slaughtering them all off by then.

^This.

...Don't the Mer have the same sentiment?

Like the wossname selectives, but in reverse ?