i like vats due to its accuracy.it also means you can concentrate on the scene and immerse yourself where as fps style you dont have time to notice details etc

VATS is good, Due to Iron sights I probably won't use it much in F:NV but its nice to have it there just in case

Just don't use it all the time, then. Grim Reaper's Sprint is the only thing that really breaks VATS, before that you can only fire a couple shots an encounter with it.

And yeah, DR 90 might be too much, but some DR is definitely warranted.

God forbid we have to choose the right time to use VATS instead of all the time every time eh? VATS should be a tactical choice that offers an advantage in some situations but not in others.

I agree that VATS makes for a tactical choice, now I am wondering if you are actually trying to debate something. It seems we agree with this as well

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

You stated "VATS should be a tactical choice that offers an advantage in some situations but not in others."

If you are not saying
1. VATS should be a tactical choice.
2. VATS has its advantages.
3. VATS has its disadvantages.

Above is what I comprehended from your statement. From those points, I agree this is what VATS should be.


Lol, now you do not like it when you are agreed with. Wow.

I use V.A.T.S. when i want a cool kill, i might first shot at the enemy until he gets low on health and then makes the final blow. V.A.T.S. must be the nicest thing in FPS/Action/RPG's in the last 10 years imo.

How can you agree with me when you also stated VATS is balanced, situational and so on?

VATS currently isnt a tactical choice, its a win button. You can use it all the time anytime because the only disadvantage (being unable to move) is heavily outweighed by the advantages (+15% crit, +90% DR, etc). VATS should be what you listed as points 1, 2 and 3. But right now its far from that because of how powerful it is.

Technically speaking, you can't use it all the time...

I don't remember using vats all that much in my last few play through. I found it more annoying than useful when I did use it. It took too much time and killed my immersion in the game because I'm stuck for 5-10 seconds watching my bullets hit my target, instead of actually doing anything. Also, it might have been the mods I used, but I don't recall VATS even being that effective. Most of my shots ended up missing, hitting something in the way, or doing less, or the same, damage as not using vats. If that's the case, I might as well do it myself in real time. I much prefer the bullet time mod.

I'm going to be even more anti-VATS with iron sights mode.

I don't dislike it, what I disliked was that in FO3, the guns were so incredibly innacurate (yes, 200 years of wear and tear, plus bad maintenance and possibly thrown together weapons, but come on, the damn gun still has rifling, it should at least shoot within a realistic degree of fire) that it felt like V.A.T.S. was required for a small guns character. at anything beyond 10 feet, pistols became useless (I fire weapons all the time, yes it becomes more difficult to aim, but it is certainly not as inaccurate as depicted), and even the hunting rifle was moot at any real range. the only thing reliable at any realistic range was the snipers.

if guns are more accurate (meaning realistically accurate, not firing off at a 45 degree angle accurate) than I wouldn't have to use V.A.T.S., so I wouldn't feel forced into it and would use it still, but not as much.

I'd say that's true of me. Trying to keep my cursor centered on an enemy while both of us are in motion and bullets are flying everywhere is not something I'm overly fond of. As such, it's not something I'm very good at. VATS saves me from the real-time paradox of my character having 100 in Small Guns while I still can't manage to hit anything close to that level of skill. For me, when my VATS meter recharges, I don't look at it as "cool, time to enter cheat mode," but "hey, now I actually get to roleplay within the abilities of this character I've made." :shrug:

To the second part - just because something's not catering to my own personal tastes doesn't mean I can't accept it as a quality game, or that it will keep me from enjoying a game that otherwise I wouldn't have. I'm not too big into action-y games, but I've had loads of fun with Batman: Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed, GTA, etc. I might get frustrated in GTA sooner than someone who's been playing lots of shooters would, and play for shorter periods of time - but I still had a blast with pretty every game in the series, there.

Plus, even if it is a game I don't feel like playing - I can still admit it's quality. I'm just not that into Halo, but I can see that it's a quality title with a lot of polish and professionalism going into it.

Anyway, back to the VATS thing - I tend to think of it as an Aimed Shot (which is what it was back when Fallout was turn-based...) There did used to be a trade-off, however. You had to balance the increased chance of a critical and (potentially) better accuracy against the disadvantages of using up more Action Points to do it. I don't know what they should do with VATS to bring back that interplay of tactical choices, but it would be a nice element to toy with (and would likely abate - to some degree - the complaints of those who feel it's overpowered at the moment.)

We all know you can't dodge a bullet. Would being vulnerable while concentrating for careful aim not self limit Vats abuse? To me the DR seems a device to let players use VATS with near impunity so as to "balance" their options; making VATS just as viable in all situations as regular real-time shooting. The AP mechanic bears little resemblance to Fallout, and moderate resemblance to FO:Tactics.

It does not behave as either Fallout or Tactics as in those games, you'd be exceptional to manage two aimed shots with any weapon but fists. Yet in FO3, VATS lets the PC stop the world and cue up 2, 3, or more attacks at once, and enact them with near invulnerability.... Then do it again a few seconds later.

[quote name='Napalmer' date='12 October 2010 - 02:19 PM' timestamp='1286911175' post='16476051']
It is a game and you are trying to compare apples to oranges. You can not apply the same logic to how things should work in VATS vs how things should work in FPS mode. At least not with the current implementation of VATS. They have to balance it somehow (I am not sawing it is perfect in FO3) as they are not the same.
[/quote]I'm open to it... How is this Apples & Oranges; and why would the logic not apply? Why would they have to balance it by making you invulnerable instead of making you use VATS with care?

Sometimes I use it sometimes I don't just depends on my mood and how much ammo I wanna go through, I eat up o'lotto rounds :gun: non-vats just for fun, and just for fun it's cool to save some ammo.................oh and watch the slowed down bullet animations with the blood spatter and decapitations.

i like it. vats was sort of in fallout 2. not sure about the other 2 games.

i completly agree. i love vats but i only used it for headshots. ya i could cripple his leg but i could just shoot his head right off and he wont be moving no more. and ur right about it hardly taking accuracy penalties. the only time i ever crippled any creatures arms or legs was for deathclaws.

In this case, "dodge" is shorthand for all the movement, grabbing cover, strafing around corners between shots, etc.... all the FPS/action crap you do in combat, that you don't do in VATS while you're standing there like a target dummy.


Eh, whatever.

VATS didn't seem broken to me, but I didn't use it constantly, didn't use it to shoot grenades & missiles that were in flight, didn't go into it when I saw a warning about incoming explosives, etc. I used it when I svcked at hitting something and my character didn't.


(re: using vats to avoid damage - funny story. I recall one time that I went into vats to get a couple aimed shots at a Sentry Bot. While in slow-mo, I saw it fire a missile at me, watched the missile slowly creep towards me..... and popped out of vats with perfect timing to take that missile to the face. :celebration: )

Everyone says its not an FPS... In VATS, the PC is not just standing there, he's exchanging fire, and the game takes a long close look at a very short event. Personally I'd prefer the Player had the option to break out of VATS at will, (like by pushing some key).
Cued aimed shots do not make any sense relevant to the other games. Technically though, one has to applaud that VATS really [and I'd think deliberately] does look like what one might extrapolate Fallout's 'taking a turn' to appear like, when seen from first person. (It really does) ~Attack one target, then another, or the first one twice, then reload; also it does actually simulate the concept of the opponents taking their own 'turn' at the same time.
(this really is what the player is supposed to understand is going on in FO1 & 2). Problem is that they paired VATS with aimed shots and made you almost invulnerable while you were shooting. This is really no different than if your FO1 character only took 10% damage from all enemy attacks for the entire combat round, and could not access their inventory during combat (which you normally can if you have the AP's).

VATS didn't seem broken to me, but I didn't use it constantly, didn't use it to shoot grenades & missiles that were in flight, didn't go into it when I saw a warning about incoming explosives, etc. I used it when I svcked at hitting something and my character didn't.

I would not call it broken, just not designed to work as one would expect.
The only thing truly in common between aiming in FO2 and using VATS in FO3 is that you have the option to do it; but FO 2 & 3 are very different games. I don't think VATS is broken, its just not quite as it should be [IMO]. :shrug:
(It works fine as intended.)

(re: using vats to avoid damage - funny story. I recall one time that I went into vats to get a couple aimed shots at a Sentry Bot. While in slow-mo, I saw it fire a missile at me, watched the missile slowly creep towards me..... and popped out of vats with perfect timing to take that missile to the face. :celebration: )

:chaos: That is pretty awesome.

This guy is spot on with his posts that i have read. It's an rpg ppl. If i want to play a realistic shooter, i'll play Flashpoint or arma.

I have used it to shoot arms so a grenade drops or shoot arms to drop powerful weapons before I was mowed down. I did not always use itfor head shots. i liked it and found it entertaining. Yes, they may tweak it but if they didn't it would not be an issue.

Personally I perfer everything real time and manual. It would have been much more inovative if there was a way to toggle V.A.T.S. between the classic version, and and something akin to bullet time from the Matrix and other action shooter games.

Then just to make it a little more robust, when using melee combat a button press sequence would apear corresponding to each blow.

That my friends would make V.A.T.S. much more enjoyable for me, and would actually make me wqnt to use it.

Here's hoping something like this is devloped into the next fallout.

Like how Max Payne had it with bullet time? Never thought of that - it would go quite well, still allowing manual aiming, and the degree of bullet time could be influenced with your skill in that weapon , ie game slows down more with a higher skill allowing better placed shots.

EXACTLY! Like you know that new cowboy perk they anounced?

With that for example when in vats you could empty all 6 chambers in a pistol or a full clip from an automatic hand gun.