I have been reading posts and it seems lots of people do not like V.A.T.S. How people do not like it? I like it because it adds a "turn based" game feel to it, whick I love. I am not much of a first shooter person anyways, so having V.A.T.S. adds more roll playability for me because my character should be good at shooting is good then, not svcking becuase me as a player can't aim properly.

So how come you do not like V.A.T.S.? Also if you do like V.A.T.S., I would like to know why as well.

I love VATS. Cool slomo fightscenes with half the pressure and skill!

I'm a fan of VATS. Especially if you are playing on a harder difficulty, VATS feels like your character's one 'superpower' that can get you out of a jam. Plus, people/robots/ghouls/mutants exploding in slo-mo is always kinda cool.

But I think that one of the reasons the Fallout franchise is so successful is because it can be played (more so now w/ hardcoe mode) in a way that challenges the masochistic difficulty junkies. If folks choose to forego VATS, more power to'em.

VATS killed my father.






Just kidding. I don't mind VATS. It has its uses, but I mostly prefer to aim manually.

I like the occasional slow motion focus, and the ability to target,
(but Vats adds nothing of turn based to FO3 ~Aiming was an option you could choose during your turn, not the turn itself :shrug:)

I think some object to VATS because it "stops their game"; while others object to the kludge Bethesda had to implement to not get you killed while they show off the slo-mo.

A number of us do not like VATS due to the insane DR (~90, IIRC) you get while in it, which makes it usable as an 'I Win' button. Couple that with Grim Reaper's Sprint and AP boosts and fights become trivial. Alternatively, fight by sneak-sniping and you can clear entire rooms before the opposition gets a chance to respond since your AP refill after each kill thanks to GRS.

Some of us who are opposed to VATS due to this really want to use it because it's based on the character's skill and not the player's; were it no so powerful we would probably use it constantly, but as things are we fight in free-fire mode instead in order to have at least some challenge in battles.

Basically, it's not the idea of VATS we are opposed to, it's the implementation.

While I can appreciate the desire to put something that is based on character skill in the game as an "homage" or whatever to the older games, what it largely ends up being is more of a cheat mode that you can bring up whenever you happen to get into a bit too much trouble in the realtime combat. It is basically a very unfair advantage on part of the player character seeing as how, if you're close to an enemy (or not so close if you have high skills in guns), you can fire off several "free" shots on an enemy (which will often be fatal) who can't really defend himself against it.

I think that's my main problem with the implementation of VATS.

They're not. Check out the results of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119137-to-vats-or-not-to-vats/. About 60% of folks use VATS whenever they can - that's more than half of all players, while another 23% don't use it as much but will still use it under certain circumstances. That's a grand total over 80% of players that take advantage of VATS.

You can pretty much be sure that VATS or some form of it isn't going to be cut from any future sequels of Fallout, so if you enjoy it you don't have to worry about it going away. Anybody who doesn't like it for whatever reason are a distinct minority - in other words, don't worry about them. The way they play the game won't be affecting you. :foodndrink:

Thanks, that would explain alot.

If it makes you feel better I still like VATS
You probably won't see too many complaints about it since they've added ADS if you wanna play in real time shooter style.

Indeed.

How can you hate the engine that made the franchise? That's like people hating Medal of Honor and Modern Warfare for letting you aim down your weapon's sights... Too many haters in the world. VATS makes me feel powerful and gets me out of oh-sh@t moments, I love it. We've all fought albino radscorpions and ghoul reavers, and deathclaws, so thank VATS for keeping you alive! I wish there were VATS or the dialogue tree for job interviews... That or Charisma you could dump points into.

I love using VATS. Nothing like seeing a group of Raiders explode into sloppy joes in slow motion. And it makes you feel super bad-ass to walk into a room, fight for five seconds, then walk back out.

You know the best thing about VATS? It's not manditory! So, if you're complaining about it, I'm wondering why?? I think it is nice to use every now and then just for change of pace.. and it looks cool, but I don't use it all the time.

Exactly what I was going to say, with the minor addition of the unskippable slow-mo sequences, that take fast paced, tense combat and....slllllooooowwww itttt dowwwnnn and drraaagggg ittt ouuttt, killing the pace of each encounter.

Also, I get annoyed when people say VATS "gives the feel of" a turn system. When did any of the enemies (or allies) get a turn to get criticals on the player? It was combat with a pause and nothing more.

I still used VATS some of the time, though, because without it, F3 just became a "mediocre" shooter.

I'll probably use it more in NV, though, because Obsidian has evolved it from less of a "I win" button to more of a "thank God, I put some points into Agility so I can get out of this bad situation" button.

Because we want to be able to use the feature without it completely breaking balance and removing any challenge the game has to offer..?

Vats is great. I think some hardliners don't like it b/c it makes the game too easy (and it definately does!)

Throwing grenades in vats NEVER gets old

my problem isnt vats or even that its a i win button...

its the fact that i had NO reason to use vats for anything but headshots... i mean yeah i could shoot a enemies legs but the dart gun defeated the purpose in that but headshots did so much damage and there was hardly an accuracy penalty for doing so

Dont mind it but hardly use it

I love VATS I use it all the time.

Hehe, "combat with a pause and nothing more.", hence why I said it was sort of like turn based. Actually you sort of reinforce that it is turn based a bit, because while it is paused, you can choose what to shoot and in what order to shoot. Something more aking to Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. That was said to be turn based as well. I think it's great for people who do not like shooter type games all the time.

What I don't understand is you said it wasn't fair for the AI since it didn't have a turn based sequence like the human player. My question is, why would it? The AI is all Zeros and Ones. If it had turn based as well, it would still be Zeros and Ones, so it wouldn't make a difference at all. So since the AI is always using Zeros and Ones, wouldn't that mean, they are actually using V.A.T.S. all the time then? Not just in Fallout 3 but in every other game? So I am not shure what you mean there.

As for the commments, that it's an "I win button", are you telling me that when you played Fallout 3, that you never ever died once at all? Maybe because I am so bad at Fallout 3, and I die alot, I do not see V.A.T.S. as an I win button. Yes it helps me out alot because I just can't aim in 1st person view, so I am really bad at it. I die allot even when using V.A.T.S. I guess I svck then.

this is exactly what i like. there are like 200000000 shooter games which offer fast paced, tense and exciting, player skill dependent combat. VATS is what prevents me from feeling the game this way, but an actual rpg, which is a good thing.
i still do a lot of real time combat, as i like that too at times, and just due to the fact, that many weapons are working better outside of VATS, but i couldn't live with those sllllllooooooooooowwwwwww ittttt dowwnnnnn sequences that make you look so incredibly cool, while allowing a relaxed game experience.
the amount of applied dr however, is something worthy of a reconsideration. as VATS time is limited, i still think it shouldn't be taken out completely, a reduction to 50% or so sounds reasonable to me

Because they are too much of a hardcoe gamer and they don't want the dirty CASUALS to spoil their EXTREMEness

Opinions.

It's not.

Almost God-Mode, just a button away.

I pretty much use Vats all the time although in Fallout 3 I didn't use Vats with the Perforator and the Metal Blaster because those weapons are better outside of Vats. :laugh: