But streamlining is the easiest way to appeal to a larger audience. No need for pesky numbers or consequences, let's just blow some stuff up and shoot lasers for awhile. Follow the flashing gold light and hold the trigger down until there's nothing moving.

It's the lowest common denominator.

Yeah, but they'll have to pay.

No seriously. Ten bucks says the Skyrim Mod fiasco was test driving the system not for PC, but for Consoles.

Mirglor, I suspect that's not going to work very well. Between Bethesda and Microsoft/Sony trying to protect their image it's neigh dead in the water. I do hope I'm wrong though.

/titls head

Metagaming?

um dude, if Fallout was real life then they would be trying to sell off the crap you sold them, while trying to get new inventory.

hell some places you would probably be able to get them to take in a lot of the crap you bought on consignment and pay you back as they sell it off.

As for Dumbing down? Fallout went even further with it than fallout 4 seems to, no only did they NOT have weapon degradation, but they also realy did not have the ability for you to create weapons in the first place. (fallout 2 you had the ability to do a one time upgrade to some weapons, Fallout new vegas you have the ability to upgrade most non unique weapons, but this time holy cat you seemingly have the ability to take 50 and upgrade them with an average of 14 mods each! (good lord I need a fresh glass of horchata be right back)

Seriously though 50 base weapons....

we had 19 "Base" range weapons

5 base "Grenaid" weapons

5 Base Mines

9 Edge melee

11 blunt

4 melee

so. . . yes 53 base weapons in F3 is dumbing down if theres only 50 in Fallout 4.....

ahh that hit the spot. sorry could not help it.

They did though, ask anyone who was stayed for several of the Fallout 4 suggestion threads.

Todd already confirmed they are free on consoles.

Im 95% sure that they specificly said that they aren't going to charge people to use mods on consoles, and 100% sure they said they weren't going to charge people for them on PC

I have no idea how its going to work, it hasn't really been done before that I know of so its a lets see how it goes kind of thing.

Yes, as I said several times I know they are adding a lot. That being said, I still will argue over the degradation. I don't want the weapon I made to be immune to all harm, it will make it feel less special, and just because they add a lot doesn't mean I have to like everything they do. Even then this entire topic is speculation.

Apparently they didn't since there's no evidence of them doing so.

Well that's something at least.

Still, Console mods are going to be a lot more restrictive. You aren't going to see a lot of graphical overhauls and the like on consoles. Also concerned how alterations of ini files and load orders are going to work on consoles.

Apparent difficulty regarding the meaning of dumbing something down.

You might claim that in that specific example F1/F2 were "dumber" than 4 but as time only runs in one direction it is t dumbing down. If you'd like to compare the two games, as a whole, you should start a new thread.

Also quantity =/= quality etc. etc.

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

Also, look for it yourself. you will eventually find several posts if you go through the threads page by page. May take you a week, but you will find thm.

far cry is all set in tropical type areas with no cities, there is no similiarity other than its an open world and you have guns

Okay in hindsight I will admit the title of this topic may have been a little off, and probably should have a better name. Still, I think the point i'm trying to argue is legitimate.

1. I have.

2. The burden of proof actually lies with you, or anyone defending it. Meanwhile nobody can find one post or thread, even of their own making which shows as much.

Common sense. Is it a magical phenomenon some people decide they don't want or need skills after the announcement, without ever voicing this before... ever? Or is it simply bias? Occam's Razor and common sense scream bias.

The way I saw it in the gameplay trailers is our armor would get ripped apart (also enemy armor as well) then I'd guess you would have to replace that piece of armor with something similar or the same.

Item degradation doesn't make the game more difficult. All you had to do to overcome it was to use a repair kit or use a similar gun to repair your gun. The repair kits might be hard to find at times, but the guns drop off the enemies like candy. So all you had to do was clutter up your inventory with items and you were go do to go. So yes, it really was just tedious to deal with. I think this is where I'm going to have to really disagree with you, though. Tedious game play is bad game play and should not be in the game.

Yes it is. Beth dumbs down their games, to appeal to a wider audience, and for them, it works. Look at the sales numbers for Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, do you notice a trend there? You should..... as more RPG elements are removed, more copies are sold.

The settlement, and crafting system in Fallout 4, is akin to an expanded version of crafting in skyrim. (take MUCH further) Of course, they will cut some other stuff to do that........ Remains to be seen yet, what that will be. We don't KNOW for a fact that skills are out, but, we don't know that they are going to be the same as the previous game either.

Except Skyrim didn't dumb down anything, it simply took the ineffectual and forced bonuses attributes gave, and instead made them optional perks in semi-branching perk trees.

Its certainly non-traditional, but its still the same RPG elements.

We don't know a lot of things about Fallout 4...yet that doesn't stop people from putting out daily videos of "new revelations" - a la the Enclave are TOTALLY in Fallout 4 because the Mark II Armor is a Power Armor option.

Well then, why not complain about hard core mode? You can find food pretty much anywhere, you can find a bed nearly anywhere.You won't die from that unless you are really bad. What about health? Stims were everywhere, why not have health reset after every battle? Why bother playing? It's a video game that is made up of a lot of very small menial tasks, so why not argue against everything that is practically in the game? I liked all these though, but I don't know about you. What did you think of these things?

I've actually come realize that there is a perk to this game coming out in 5 months that I hadn't originally thought of. We only have to listen/read these repetitive "they dumbed down Fallout" for 5 months instead of the 11 months we had to put up with it for Skyrim.

Sure simple weak weapons are easy to find but stronger, deadlier weapons are far rarer. By the time Plasma Rifles are common you are such a high level that weapons of that caliber are necessary to survive against the enemies you are faced with. Unless you invest in Repair skill and make your own kits you would be hard-pressed to find more Anti-Material Rifles to repair your own. So if you do raise the Repair skill then sure, no issue, but if you dont then you made that choice and the game becomes more difficult.

Tedious for those too lazy to care about anything other than "shoot, enemy dies, move on". There is more to the game than that, for instance the setting...a post-apocalypse where equipment wears and tears because conditions are not clean or fair

You can always find a way to justify dumbing down to yourself. They've always got an excuse and if you're willing to buy it so do you.

Skyrim didn't include books from Morrowind!

DUMBED DOWN!

I have complained about hardcoe mode before. It was a massive waste of time to build for NV, given how terribly ineffectual it was, and how devs lack the ability to give it all the options that mod versions of hardcoe needs system can offer to make it somewhat balanced. I would rather Bethesda not spend the time making it for any future game, and just leave it in the hands of modders instead.

As for those other things, they generally do work most of the time, which is the difference.