Oblivion had many more spell effects than Skyrim. Encumber, mute, dispel, absorb life, etc. were far from copies of other effects.

I know? I pointed that out in my post.......

Perks are a cheap workaround for a game mechanic that worked. I can't help that you didn't like it. In morrowind, it worked perfectly well. In daggerfall, it worked perfectly well. In Oblivion, beth screwed up WEAPONS, not attributes.

In any event, neither one of us is likely to change our position, I believe the games have indeed been dumbed down, you do not. That likely is not going to change, and I am tired of kicking the greasey spot that used to be the dead horse, so, I am just gonna bow out of the whole thing. This is about as productive as the "why can't I start as a gay character" threads..... I have seen this particular evolution with each succeeding game, and it's always the same. There are folks that actually want an RPG, not just an action adventure game, and then there are those that would defend Beth no matter what they did. It's pointless arguing. An exercise in futility. Think I will just wait for the game to come out, (and a sale.....) and play it. If nothing else, it should be fun, at the very least.

You described repairing as "just clicking a button" and yet you consider it a tedious hassle...i couldnt think of a more opposing description. If something is as easy as clicking a button then it is by it's nature not tedious since it is as simple (if not simpler) than every other function in the game. Some of us would rather have immersive actions in the game, not a cake-walk shooter with nothing stopping you from walking through the shooting gallery guns-ablazing.

Since Weapon Condition cannot be added so easily as it is a deep and complex system to set up for every single item in the entire game, i say let those who oppose it "mod it out" since that is always the "solution" for you people. Easier to "turn it off" than to create it from scratch...oh wait i forgot about everyone was selfishly in it for themselves without regard to the game or playerbase as a whole

right.....

because people who want an RPG can't like the changes Bethesda made.

Check my edit. Most of the effects were not copy paste. They were rather unique.

And thank you for beautifully illustrating which category you fall into.

Well, taking some of the mindset you've given me, those were all pointless. I got through the game just fine without using anything other than basic flame spray spells and other basic destruction spells of the sort. But they did nerf destruction in general, I will say that. Compared to ranged and melee, they were really UP unless you used mods.

Most of which didn't add anything to the game really.

-Mute doesn't make sense in TES, since spells are not spoken

-Encumber never worked on anyone but you, and was thus imbalanced

-Skyrim had absorb life enchants.

Destruction was only underpowered because people tried to use it by itself.

-One does not win the game simply by using the one handed skill, they have to use armor as well, similarly, mages use alteration to give them mage armor.

-Warriors and thieves also have to use potions, as do mages, or at least the restoration skills.

-Warriors and thieves may also use companions on higher difficulties to balance out the damage and tankyness of enemies, as such, mages have to use conjuration to get companions.

One of the best things about Skyrim was that it took destruction down many knotches from being an instant win button to "you actually have to use other skills to make it work like the other classes do"

I have no issue with scrapping item degradation. It was tedious busywork that got in the way of going out and enjoying the game. It always lead to the player's inventory being cluttered with endless copies of the same item for when you needed to repair something. Maybe there could be some way to include a system that was connected to item condition but I don't have the will to imagine how, and I'm not going to lament the loss of a system that I never liked or found logical.

Funny that you should include this as an argument for it. Did you miss the part where I stated that item degradation does not have any real tangible affect on gun fights? You can have exactly that while still having item degradation included. Why? Because you just stop to fix it after the fight ends. During the fight itself its impact is so negligible that it might as well not even be in the game anyway.

Am I the only one who understands the Spells of Skyrim are more limited because magic has become mistrusted and thus Skyrim is generally less magically inclined. Also - the loss of the Mage's Guild to independent schools means magical knowledge is being "hoarded" to a degree that Magic is becoming, ironically, a lost art....at least in Skyrim.

Sure, there's the Mage's College, but they're literally at the edge of the world and not exactly in a position to acquire large quantities of rare and exotic tomes and materials.

Some call it dumbing down.

I call it being true to the setting.

SHHHHHHH...... that kind of logic isn't allowed here.

Repair never added anything useful to the game, it was always just an annoyance. Once Operation Anchorage came out I never used anything but the Gary glitched sim weapons again. It was a pointless waste of time to do so.

Personally I think that is just a justification people concocted and that the real reason that magic was gutted so badly was so that it wouldn't overlap too much with or detract from the new Shout mechanics that were suppose to be central to the game.

/thread

They all did add unique mechanics to the game, and I again mistyped. I meant absorb skill/attributes, my bad. And yes, mute is in TES lore. Did you mean Skyrim? Mute makes as much sense as blind or earwig in Morrowind, which is plenty of sense.

This assumes you have other weapons to repair with or you have enough repair skill to make a kit, which isnt a guarantee even though you seem to think it is. If you dont have the stuff to fix your gun, it degrades which causes jamming (longer reloads) and loss of accuracy/effectiveness. Just because you try-harded your way through the games and hoarded kits/epoxy or Caps to buy repairs or multiples of that weapon doesnt mean everyone did, nor does it mean the system didnt affect the game

Meta-gaming an entire function out of the game doesnt mean the function was worthless

I never said mute wasn't in lore, I said it didn't make sense. Even as far back as Morrowind no one spoke to cast spells. It was all just hand movements and thinking.

How is it a "justification" when the game itself constantly remarks on how much mages are generally mistrusted and ostracized? Given the adversarial nature of the Thalmor and the Altmer's magical disposition, that also factors into the general dislike and decay of the magical community.

Hey, a fantasy game where magic isn't the be all, end all specialization. I thought it was a wonderful change of pace.

Silence is a magical effect from more than just TES, it doesnt always literally mean "you can no longer speak", it just prevents magic-use. It makes perfect sense

TES isn't those other series, and TES had sound for that very reason, to disrupt mage casting by distracting their mental faculties with noise.

silence doesn't make sense, and was redundant with sound.

So explain, the spell Silence cuts off magical abilities, just because the name comes from much older Fantasy settings doesnt make it nonsensical, so i have to hear how "stops magic" as a spell doesnt make sense