I would play FarCryOut too if it were marketed as Fallout: War Never Changes...

But then I'll probably play it too, marketed as Fallout 4. Just please no UbiTowers

*Glances at the seemingly deep and complex weapon/armor/settlement crafting system*

...They dumbed things down?

>its metagaming to use the intended merchant respawns for money

huh?

there is also this.

there are pros and cons. I'd prefer there be durability but it should degrad much much slower than it did in FO3. pros for durability is it prevents the game from being too easy in terms of having a powerful weapon that has no costs in terms of use. a con is that you end up cluttering your inventory with extra copies of the weapon to keep it in best condition or the same with weapon repair kits. I liked the weapon repair kits because they gave more purpose to some of the random junk that was floating around. but as we saw with the settlement crafting system all junk will be useful.

It is meta-gaming to wait outside 1 merchant for far longer than any living being could stand, and it is meta-gaming to even assume or know that merchants "respawn" money

Is not eating or pooping longer then any human could meta gaming also?

I give them credit the crafting system is improved. That said I hate they removed weapons and maybe armor degrading. I understand people hate having to maintain weapons but it was never a problem with me.

yeah, I think its too soon to critisize based on what we have/haven't seen. In general its true that bethesda has a tendacy to completely scrap major gameplay mechanics and then not replace them with any thing in the TES series. but this is only their second fall out game and so far from the information they have released that at worst have added some new game play mechanics as well as improving on some previous ones, while possibly removing other mechanics (which hasn't even been confirmed yet and is pure speculation at this point).

Its hardly been shown that the game has been dumbed down in any way yet and we know they are adding new cool features so in general its about just as sophisticated if not more than previous titles.

Not gonna lie: I laughed way harder than I should have when I jumped into this thread and saw this post. I didn't realize it was rhetorical at first and thought this was a legitimate question about bowel issues.

People don't put a lot of stock into a deep and complex crafting system. What makes a game deep for one guy doesn't extend to the desires of a different fan.

I for one welcome the new crafting system. Looks incredible and I love the concept of turning a basic pistol into a submachine gun. Or turning a plasma rifle into a plasma shotgun.

Glad I could give a laugh today.

I wish we had that deep and complex system for character building instead.

Diference, in Oblivion you just needed to bring some hammers together with arrows and potions and you was golden.

The only real strategic part was that you needed to get smiting up to 50 I think to upgrade enchanted items. So before this you might be careful about using them.

Not saying it should have been removed but it would probably be nerfed a bit, you would not require high level crafting skill to repair your gear.

In fallout 3 repair is an major strategic part of the game you might raid to get spare parts. Some guns can not be used so much as they are hard to repair or pay for expensive repairs.

New Vegas simplyfied this a lot with the repair kits, mothership zeta had its repair glue.

Think the problem was more how fast stuff broke down especially heavy weapons.

Doesn't look particularly deep/complex either. It's an improvement absolutely, but you can make so much with so many things. Granted we've only seen a tiny fraction, but did you see how many different parts you could use to make the same thing?

That's not deep or complex at all.

No seriously I appreciate it. The forums have seemed tense lately.

Sure they're taking some stuff away, but with all the stuff being added, I wouldn't say it's being "dumbed down".

Wow, this is a lot of replies! I didn't expect this to get so much attention. But anyway, I will try to respond to all I saw in disagreements:

To the guy who said

That is not at all the same. Repair isn't about the end result of it breaking, it's about the constant decrease in it's efficiency so that it affects me as a whole instead of perfect performance then POOF it's gone. Also, if I have to purposefully add my own some of RPG in that sort of capacity, the game has already failed on a few points. I hate it when you have to purposefully hurt yourself to make it more immersive.

To the guy that said

I disagree wholeheartedly. It is a decision to spend that time, even with fast travel, and money to go to a guy to fix your gun, and most people I see in Fallout 3 can repair it to 49% at most, so are you sure you didn't install a mod that increased it's cap and forgot? Cause only a handful of isolated people can even come close to full repair, even in NV and when they did it was expensive. Also, 30,000 caps before getting to NV? Holy **** man, you no lifed that game, I have gotten to Freeside and gambled at level 1 by sneaking through the deathclaws and the most I could ever make was around 8,000, which I spent on implants normally. Even with 30,000 caps it takes like 2,000 to repair leather armor to full condition from like 1/6 condition

And to the guy who said

Yes, I know they added a whole lot, but one I said PEOPLE want it dumbed down, and two, item condition is an important element to benefit fully from this new system. Doesn't matter if you put 3X the icing on the cake if you hallowed out the base so much that it collapses under the added weight.

Simply because Beth said it. Beth's word to some, is infallible.

Meanwhile you won't find any pre announcement threads or posts proposing the merging or cutting of skills, etc. Especially not from the ones saying "good riddance."

Also, I know none of this is confirmed, but so far, I am kind of worried from what people are saying. So, as usual with games these days, I am assuming the worst and making a "preemptive strike" in a way and speaking out against it.

I will say that they would have to change the repair system to even have it work with thw new crafting system. Since you essentially make your own guns now they would need to convert repairs into using parts to repair instead of whole guns...which i would be fine with

We have no confirmation on the removal of degradation's removal in the case of weapons, and armor have health bars. That means armor degradation is very much a thing - as though chunks of it flying off during combat montages wasn't enough.

I'm not sure I understand this. We still have the SPECIAL system. Perks and Skills are still in the game. There's no actual change to the system Fallout has classically employed.

Or is this yet another one of those "I didn't specifically see it, which means it's not there!" things?

Deep and Complex doesn't mean "Needlessly specific". Fallout: New Vegas' crafting system suffered from this, where you ultimately either ignored it almost entirely or became an obsessive packrat. Having more "generic" options means there's less need to hoard every cog and spring.

Of course, the diversity of parts able to use could also be the byproduct of a perk.

I agree with the OP, losing Item Degradation would be a big blow to the RPG aspect of this game. Fallout 4 would still be good no doubt but not a good RPG.

Spending time to go get stuff repair means nothing because time means nothing in the game.

And I was talking about NV, not Fallout 3.

Getting 30K caps isn't hard, its a Bethesda based game after all, the economy is broken to all crap and back again.

There was actually several people who proposed that back in the old Fallout 4 suggestion threads.

bethesda never said it was gone. people are just assuming it is because bethesda has said nothing about it and they didn't see any examples of weapon durability in the presentations. given that we can see armor does have a durability of some sort it is more reasonable to assume that weapons might as well, if we are to play the over hyped speculation probablity game.