Why are there so many Dunmer in Cyrodiil? It seems odd that one of the most xenophobic races in Tamriel (second only to the Imperials, it seems) should have arrived in Cyrodiil in such numbers as to make them the fourth largest minority there. Surely, as they were not conquered, their own culture, industry, and economy are still sufficient enough for the population of Morrowind, further enhanced by Imperial commerce, it would take a big change to make so many of them leave. Most of the things that would make them leave (if they were not Dunmer) have been common practice for centuries, such as Great House conflict, so most suggestions do not appear to be valid reasons, especially for such large numbers.

The Blight may also not have been a great influence on this emmigration, as most of the Dunmer in Morrowind (especially the prominent ones) who state their origins identify themselves as being from the mainland, the only exception being Llensi Llaram, who lived near Khuul.

So, what do the characters actually say?



I'm wondering whether Mach-Na, the Argonian who said that, is referring to the Tribunal Temple or the priests of the Nine Divines when she mentions the Church. The Tribunal no longer exist, even if the priests do, so the Dunmer probably wouldn't be trying to get away from them. Even if the fact that the Tribunal are slain or, as Oblivion reveals, missing, and the priests have kept it quiet it seems unlikely that no-one would have guessed what had occured, given Nerevar's reincarnation.

But, with the Tribunal gone, the Imperial priests are also more able to exert control, and this seems to be a better description of what is driving the Dunmer to leave Morrowind.

As far as the state goes, the ban on slavery may be the reason for traders to have left Morrowind (such as Ulen Athram, from Kragenmoor) but not the majority of the Dunmer in Cyrodiil. Helseth's actions do not seem drastic enough to drive off such large numbers - Morrowind has been ruled by people that many of the population were secretly unsure about for thousands of years, after all.



A Dunmer in Cheydinhal, however, blames the Tribunal Temple (or perhaps their fall?) for her leaving, which either suggests that the fall of the Tribunal is, somehow, public knowledge, or that the priests have power they shouldn't have, and are using it.

So, I'll open it up for debate - why are there so many Dunmer in Cyrodiil?

the developers wanted to make it politically correct. cyrodiil is the center of the empire, so its pretty easily reached by all the races, and presumably a nice spot to make a living.

http://www.uesp.net/w/images/OB-Demographics.jpg

The two percent difference in the mer and beast folk populations isn't really important in a game that only has a handful of NPCs. Cheydinhal is supposed to have a lot, people like(d) them, and that puts them over the top. Also, the way Oblivion's dubious worldbuilding works is that people get put into jobs that fit their racial skill bonuses, and Dunmer are the versatile race.

And then there's the fact that Uesp's pie chart has even less to do with lore than the lack of toilets.

Hence I didn't link to it, paw

Why didn't you, if your premise is that there is a quantitatively large number of Dunmer in the Imperial province?

I thought Oblivion's dialog was quite clear. The demise of the Tribunal Temple has caused turmoil. And of course Helseth's abolition of slavery would shake things up. In Ted Peterson's image of it, there was a civil war, and the American Civil War, for one, was followed by just such a shifting of the population.

Because, as you said, it isn't lore. Only what is said in the game by the characters, or written in books, counts as valid sources.



Only one Dunmer in Cyrodiil seems likely to have been affected by that - Ulen Athram, a trader from Kragenmoor. The others don't seem to have been merchants or slave-owners.



Great House conflicts have been happening for centuries, only slightly more secretively. There was no emmigration before, and the government had less control over things, so why should there be one now?

The dunmer society was, and still is, very rigid; til recently, Temple was there, becoming more and more repressive, the Great Houses are still there, and the dunmers as a rule do take everything seriously, especially religious matters (cf
Reflections on Cult Worship in the Empire), not to mention prudery.

In view of this, it is not surprising that a significant minority of dunmer people just can't stand this frame of mind, and being more open-minded and liberated than most of their fellow countrymen, more and more chose to leave for Cyrodiil; actually the dunmers we can talk to in Cyrodiil are very unlike the ones we met in Morrowind.

If a pie chart showing the exact distribution of a races in a TES game featuring only 2000 NPCs isn't lore, then neither is your contention that there are so many Dunmer in Cyrodiil, which presumably is also based on ingame experiences.

You've lost me entirely. If you agree with that, the haven't you just admitted that a large part of your post isn't based on gameplay, not lore? (Cheydinhal's architecture is [regrettably] a lore topic, but the demographics of the province is not, because they make no sense)



So? It wasn't the planter class that left after the American Civil War, and different conflicts have different displaced populations. It's the middle class that have fled Iraq in greatest proportion, for example.


Because what Morrowind is used to is House War, not civil war. The Morag Tone assassination fest. A battle between modernity and traditionalism where the former wins is not something that a culture gets over any time soon, and it's certainly not business as usual for Morrowind. If you recall, Vvardenfell was lately turned into Cyrodiil's Potosi whilst the Nerevarine disemboweled traditions and deities older than old Skar himself. That's the kind of breakdown that gets people heading for the hills.

Because in Cyrodiil the punishment for necrophilia is only a 500 drake fine, even for repeat offenders.

And its also pretty dubious that that is teh only piece of info teh CoC is ever able to provide about Cyrodiil, apart from the penalty for grave robbing, which is death.

Because Helseth's reforms and a high level of exposure to Imperial culture has created a generation of middle class Dunmer that is disillusioned with the rigid structure of traditional Morrowind society. When the fall of the Temple led to civil unrest, this generation decided to get the heck out of Dodge and used their capital to move to the Imperial Province, where they hoped to get ahead working as skilled laborers (like alchemists).

My best guess.

Where are people getting the influx of Dunmer to Cyrodiil is a recent occurrence? The way I understood things from the game is that they immigrated to Cyrodiil during the height of the Tribunal's power, established themselves, and with the Temple gone and the Great Houses in upheaval, see no real reason to leave.

You're assuming that the dunmer are recent arrivals, it is entirely possible that some or most have been there quite a long time. Cheydenhal has more dunmer because 1. it is closest to the boarder and 2. has a dunmer Count, given that every race has it's odd-balls I'm sure some dunmer embraced Tiber Septim's Empire right from the start (Symacchus anyone?)

If they were driven of by the Nine Divine cult, I doubt they'd go in Cyrodill, whre it's even more established - though probably not in 'missionary zeal on full burner' mode. With the dunmers having a lifespan of at least 120 years, it's a reasonably safe bet most of them left when the Temple was still in charge. The Temple's heavy-handed crackdown on dissidents thats apparent in Morrowind (the game) would have given them plenty of incentive. Even an Imperial-ridden city must feel better than a cell in the Ministry of Truth.

Game-mechanics answer
-There aren't really that many, it just seems so because they often show up in concentrated amounts, like Cheydinhal.
-They might have done this because of how much everyone drooled over Dunmer in Morrowind.
-They might have done this in Cheydinhal because at least one city had to have the 'racial tension' hat. Same thing as Leyawiin. Kinda.

"Lore" answer
-There aren't really that many, it just seems so because they're all in Cheydinhal.
-The masses of Dunmer emigrants all went to Cheydinhal because Such was apparently blown up.
-They really did move to Cyrodiil because of political turmoil, and no one really talks about it because there are actually much more people in the cities to whom this has happened, and you just have to imagine that they are actually there and things actually make sense.

I was thinking something along those lines, what guarantees do we have that the Dunmer in Cyrodiil immigrated recently? While some of them seem to suggest this, it can't be said for all, and given the long lifespans of elves, they might have come to Cyrodiil when they were relatively young by Dunmer standards even though it wasn't really all that recent to other races.

And as has been noted, I didn't really get the impression that there were that many Dunmer in most parts of Cyrodiil, it's just that they tended to be especially concentrated in Cheydinhal, and given that the architecture of that city is supposedly influenced by Dunmer architecture, I'd think that it isn't only recently that it had such a large Dunmer population.

And yes, I'd imagine that when Dunmer say that they left Morrowind to get away from "the church", I'd imagine they mean the Tribunal Temple, since the Imperial religion would have an even stronger presence in Cyrodiil, it would seem to make more sense, if they wanted to avoid it, to move somewhere where its presence is weaker.

There's a priest in Leyawiin who says he left Vvardenfell because of the "Collapse" .

"According to him, he used to be a priest in the Tribunal Temple in Kragenmoor. After the collapse of the temple, he drifted for a while until he joined the chapel." (UESP)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Avrus_Adas

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