Why are there no... ?

Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:31 am

Except this isn't real life and therefore real world mechanics would not apply. If that's the case then melee combat needs a major overhaul. Getting smacked in the face/head with a large spiked mace would, if not kill you, then disorient you to the point where you would end up dead in the next swing. You don't have to pull back another arrow when getting hit (unless it knocks you back) so why would it be any different for crossbows?

Yep. Gameplay > realism.
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Kit Marsden
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:28 am

Except this isn't real life and therefore real world mechanics would not apply. If that's the case then melee combat needs a major overhaul. Getting smacked in the face/head with a large spiked mace would, if not kill you, then disorient you to the point where you would end up dead in the next swing. You don't have to pull back another arrow when getting hit (unless it knocks you back) so why would it be any different for crossbows?

You can run around while loading a bow. That's one major difference.

Sure I might have gone too far by saying they should reset the loading of the crossbow, but they should make you stand still at the very least. That should be part of its disadvantage. It's advantage should be penetration on heavy armors for great damage.

I also think there is a place for crossbows in Skyrim like I said before. I just wouldn't want it implemented as a bow with a different graphic. Or worse, faster than a bow.

I am also not so emotional about them not being in because I can understand that design decisions eventually require cuts to be made. This or that. This or that. And overall I'm extremely happy with the way that combat is looking overall.
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Emma Pennington
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:42 pm

Because it's a dishonourable weapon. If you cannot see the white eyeballs of the enemy you're killing, then you sir, are a coward and a scoundrel. :whoops:
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Vicki Blondie
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:03 pm

Actually Xbox. You seem to have misunderstood me. Shivering Isles was what I would call a big DLC pack. That would be an expansion to you yes? So if this expansion was not on the shelves, but you had to download it, you wouldn't? It would have the same content and
everything and the same price as it was on the shelf.

To be honest if you wouldn't then I don't get you, I'm sorry. You could say that Shivering Isles included some of the same stuff from the default game, even though it was meant to be another world. Would you call this lazy or does that not bother you that they didn't make all new stuff?

I say that if there is enough content and new stuff that keeps me playing, I will buy it. If it's something like character skins or just new weapons then NO WAY am I paying for that,

This. So far bethesda is pretty innocent when it comes to this. Take the Battlefield franchise for instance, I can't wait for battlefield 3, but all the battlefield 2 DLC was just loadouts and skins! :facepalm: Alot of game devs are gutting games just to sell it seperately and make an extra buck.
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Da Missz
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:07 pm

Your problem is really that you are having trouble admitting that there may indeed be a good excuse.

Your opinion that they did it because they have a "lack of a desire to implement variety" doesn't hold any weight with me. It's almost like you think they are out to upset people that enjoy variety and so they kept it out. Which is so extremely silly when you consider the type of game that Skyrim is.


Except there is no good excuse. By all means, if they've got one, let me hear it! I enjoy being proven wrong. I'm sorry it doesn't hold any weight with you but how you personally feel is entirely irrelevant and inconsequential. Skyrim is a beautiful look game but having nice scenery does nothing for someone who expects a lot of free roam gameplay. I expect to be able to actually do stuff, not just wander around for an hour. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be an issue but what is, is the fact that ranged weapon users get one method of killing while everyone else gets a myriad of ways.


Only if you can't see beyond your own desires. In reality there are plenty of reasons why they don't have a wide variety of ... whatever it is you want in the game.


I'm not asking for a wide variety of anything but SOME variety and honestly, if you can't be hassled to read or understand what was and is being said, I have no desire to read or respond to your posts.


Actaully, spears wouldn't be that hard to create. You have it in hand, and press to throw.

Block: hold the block button
Jab: quickly press the attack button
Throw: Hold down the attack button, like a bow, the longer you hold it, the farther it goes


It seems simplistic, but have no idea of the technical stuff.


That's just it. People make it out to be this incredible feat that takes super geniuses to accomplish when it doesn't. The designs are simplistic and already out there, they already know how these weapons would function, using stats from a similar weapon albeit slightly altered would be easy and ultimately, the most difficult and/or time consuming task would be the animations. I am, by no means, disrespecting all the hard work Bethesda has put into the game but I'm also not asking for much. The weapon types usually range from iron, steel, silver, dwarven, glass, ebony and daedric (among others). Each one carries the same basic look for example; daedric weapons tend to look very evil and menacing with a black & red color scheme. That alone means that they don't need to develop a "unique" look like so many other companies do with the various weapons in their RPGs. It follows the same formats with little variation in stats when moving from one tier to the next. But you're right, I'm not a game designer and I know very little of the trade so I could be horribly wrong.
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Fiori Pra
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:54 am

I'm not asking for a wide variety of anything but SOME variety and honestly, if you can't be hassled to read or understand what was and is being said, I have no desire to read or respond to your posts.


Then don't.

But that doesn't take away from the attitude of entitlement demonstrated when you equate the absence of what you want to a character flaw of the developer.
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Helen Quill
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:59 am

Only if you can't see beyond your own desires. In reality there are plenty of reasons why they don't have a wide variety of ... whatever it is you want in the game.



Why are you Stuck on making this about him? you think he's the only person that Wants more weapon variety? ah you with that you'll probably fall back to "they are minority" hmmm I see because it does not include -your- desires they are minority. do you see how this works? mmk not sure why people see the duty in railroading folks for things that wont deter their own enjoyment and only seeks to include more aspects in the game


especially when NPC can use spears and crossbows too, not just the player.


In Oblivion there are two fighting methods, Bow and arrow, and flailing with a remodeled Sword, from my experience that still hasn't changed save for now there are straight magick casters that can off you in a barrage.
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Talitha Kukk
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:25 pm

Why are you Stuck on making this about him? you think he's the only person that Wants more weapon variety?

Hmm... why is the OP so stuck on making it about a character flaw of Skyrim developers?

No, I don't think he's the only one who wants more weapon variety. I, myself, would love a wider variety of ranged weapons. From the very get-go I've been hoping and praying for throwing weapons. The difference is that I don't think the developers are lazy or incompetent for not including what I want.

ah you with that you'll probably fall back to "they are minority" hmmm I see because it does not include -your- desires they are minority. do you see how this works? mmk not sure why people see the duty in railroading folks for things that wont deter their own enjoyment and only seeks to include more aspects in the game

I'm not even sure what you're trying to express here.
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kyle pinchen
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:53 am

The weapon types usually range from iron, steel, silver, dwarven, glass, ebony and daedric (among others). Each one carries the same basic look for example; daedric weapons tend to look very evil and menacing with a black & red color scheme. That alone means that they don't need to develop a "unique" look like so many other companies do with the various weapons in their RPGs.

I don't think you're giving the artists enough credit. That said, Bethesda should really pay their artists to make more weapons and armour.
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Jimmie Allen
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:28 am

its sad they are not in

they should be in for their OWN sake if nothing else
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WYatt REed
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:58 pm

Ehh. Crossbows were used in formations and preferred because of how little training you really need for them, not because of variety and how "cool" looking they were. In hindsight I probably don't miss them because I find long bows to be more favorable over the slow to reload crossbows, which could be someone else's preference over the longbow. Throwing knives on the other hand would be loved by all my assassin characters because it would be a quick solution to a big snag with a band of guards who have discovered me somehow. That way I've inflicted some fast damage before closing in with Melee.
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aisha jamil
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:20 am

While I am not overly concerned that crossbows are not in, the argument about reload time is weak, the crossbow is also a good stealth weapon, if you can take out the target using stealth then the reload time means nothing.
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Emilie Joseph
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:42 am

I don't think you're giving the artists enough credit. That said, Bethesda should really pay their artists to make more weapons and armour.

Instead of paying high values for celebrities to do voices.
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lacy lake
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:09 pm

Hmm... why is the OP so stuck on making it about a character flaw of Skyrim developers?

As for myself, I'd love to see a wider variety of ranged weapons. From the very get-go I've been hoping and praying for throwing weapons. The important difference is that I don't think the developers are lazy or incompetent for not including what I want.


I'm not even sure what you're trying to express here.



I'm not entirely sure where you're getting the thought that he thinks they are incompetent or lazy, he said they did not have the desire. think of that what you will but I agree if they wanted to they would have but they didn't. they worked on marriage, Bar brawls, finishers (where you can kick but not as H2H?) but not weapon variety. so :shrug:
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Brentleah Jeffs
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:29 am

Who cares about spears and crossbows anyway?

I honestly don't understand why some people complain about stupid things like this. :shakehead:


Plenty of people do. If they didn't, this clearly would not be an issue.

I honestly don't understand why some people make stupid posts like this. :shakehead:


but games never have to represent lore if it did the landmasses would look way different, and children wernt in Morrowind or Oblivion either, so no one was ever born for the time period between those games


They actually do. Why develop lore (i.e. the story, background, etc.) if you're not going to adhere to it? That's the equivalent of making a Harry Potter movie without magic and having it take place in some jungle out in the middle of nowhere.


Well for one. Throwing knives are incredibly inefficient weapons. They can't pierce armor and the most they would do to an unarmored target is slightly injure if they don't bounce harmlessly off your body by hitting handle-first. Crossbows I don't really know why they aren't in.


Again, why are we trying to use real world logic for a game's mechanics? That's just downright silly. Swords weren't designed for piercing armor either, that's why they developed rapiers, maces and so on. If they were to add in all the realism you people try to use in your arguments, these games would be impossible to play and downright obnoxious. Interesting? Yes. Entertaining? Not so much.


Actually Xbox. You seem to have misunderstood me. Shivering Isles was what I would call a big DLC pack. That would be an expansion to you yes? So if this expansion was not on the shelves, but you had to download it, you wouldn't? It would have the same content and
everything and the same price as it was on the shelf.

To be honest if you wouldn't then I don't get you, I'm sorry. You could say that Shivering Isles included some of the same stuff from the default game, even though it was meant to be another world. Would you call this lazy or does that not bother you that they didn't make all new stuff?

I say that if there is enough content and new stuff that keeps me playing, I will buy it. If it's something like character skins or just new weapons then NO WAY am I paying for that,


In that case, I wait for them to release a "Game of the Year" edition so that I can get all the content in one go.


You can run around while loading a bow. That's one major difference.

Sure I might have gone too far by saying they should reset the loading of the crossbow, but they should make you stand still at the very least. That should be part of its disadvantage. It's advantage should be penetration on heavy armors for great damage.

I also think there is a place for crossbows in Skyrim like I said before. I just wouldn't want it implemented as a bow with a different graphic. Or worse, faster than a bow.

I am also not so emotional about them not being in because I can understand that design decisions eventually require cuts to be made. This or that. This or that. And overall I'm extremely happy with the way that combat is looking overall.


How many people run around while shooting a bow? If you didn't trip over or slam into something, your aim would be absolutely terrible. Why would you stand still? If I can pull back and hold an arrow while running around on steep slopes while being accosted by a dragon, I should be able to load a bolt into a crossbow while moving. I certainly wouldn't want a faster version of the bow either and again, that would mean they should get rid of the axes, daggers, etc. since they're really just differently skinned swords. Who said I was emotional? I think you're misinterpreting the tones in my post. Well, they could have easily put less focus on making the game look good and a little more focus on weapon variety. After all, if they can devote eight members to dungeons alone, why not do that with the ranged fighting aspect of the game?
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StunnaLiike FiiFii
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:21 pm

Except there is no good excuse. By all means, if they've got one, let me hear it! I enjoy being proven wrong. I'm sorry it doesn't hold any weight with you but how you personally feel is entirely irrelevant and inconsequential. Skyrim is a beautiful look game but having nice scenery does nothing for someone who expects a lot of free roam gameplay. I expect to be able to actually do stuff, not just wander around for an hour. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be an issue but what is, is the fact that ranged weapon users get one method of killing while everyone else gets a myriad of ways.




I'm not asking for a wide variety of anything but SOME variety and honestly, if you can't be hassled to read or understand what was and is being said, I have no desire to read or respond to your posts.




That's just it. People make it out to be this incredible feat that takes super geniuses to accomplish when it doesn't. The designs are simplistic and already out there, they already know how these weapons would function, using stats from a similar weapon albeit slightly altered would be easy and ultimately, the most difficult and/or time consuming task would be the animations. I am, by no means, disrespecting all the hard work Bethesda has put into the game but I'm also not asking for much. The weapon types usually range from iron, steel, silver, dwarven, glass, ebony and daedric (among others). Each one carries the same basic look for example; daedric weapons tend to look very evil and menacing with a black & red color scheme. That alone means that they don't need to develop a "unique" look like so many other companies do with the various weapons in their RPGs. It follows the same formats with little variation in stats when moving from one tier to the next. But you're right, I'm not a game designer and I know very little of the trade so I could be horribly wrong.

Obviously the task to add crossbows was not too big. They consiously decided to NOT add them because, more than likely, it would take away from time for something else they personally found more important. How do you explain this to someone like you...

This game doesn't have Lances.
This game doesn't have Throwing Axes.
This game doesn't have Spears.
This game doesn't have Flails.
This game doesn't have Cestus'.
This game doesn't have Kukris.
This game doesn't have combat oriented staves such as a quarterstaff.
This game doesn't have darts.
This game doesn't have throwing knives.
This game doesn't have boomerangs.
This game doesn't have man-catchers.
This game doesn't have tridents.

This game doesn't have a lot of things. Crossbows is one of those things.

And yes, I do believe that your opinion that Bethesda has a "lack of a desire to implement variety" is silly no matter how inconsequential you think it is. Variety is the central most concept in this and all previous Elder Scrolls games.
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Anna S
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:03 pm

I'm not entirely sure where you're getting the thought that he thinks they are incompetent or lazy, he said they did not have the desire.

Right, and how does he know they don't have the desire? He doesn't.

think of that what you will but I agree if they wanted to they would have but they didn't. they worked on marriage, Bar brawls, finishers (where you can kick but not as H2H?) but not weapon variety. so :shrug:

That would display a limited understanding of how applications are developed. There is no way the resources (time & money) available would cover the inclusion of every feature Bethesda wanted to add.
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:01 pm

Thum its not about adding every feature under the sun, its returning features that were once availible. hence my point about finishers and marriage being in game but returning weapon variety is heresy to so folks.



Obviously the task to add crossbows was not too big. They consiously decided to NOT add them because, more than likely, it would take away from time for something else they personally found more important. How do you explain this to someone like you...

This game doesn't have Lances.
This game doesn't have Throwing Axes.
This game doesn't have Spears.
This game doesn't have Flails.
This game doesn't have Cestus'.
This game doesn't have Kukris.
This game doesn't have combat oriented staves such as a quarterstaff.
This game doesn't have darts.
This game doesn't have throwing knives.
This game doesn't have boomerangs.
This game doesn't have man-catchers.
This game doesn't have tridents.

This game doesn't have a lot of things. Crossbows is one of those things.

And yes, I do believe that your opinion that Bethesda has a "lack of a desire to implement variety" is silly no matter how inconsequential you think it is.



It isnt about what the game doesn't have its what was availible in the past that no longer is.
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TIhIsmc L Griot
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:54 am

How many people run around while shooting a bow? If you didn't trip over or slam into something, your aim would be absolutely terrible. Why would you stand still? If I can pull back and hold an arrow while running around on steep slopes while being accosted by a dragon, I should be able to load a bolt into a crossbow while moving. I certainly wouldn't want a faster version of the bow either and again, that would mean they should get rid of the axes, daggers, etc. since they're really just differently skinned swords. Who said I was emotional? I think you're misinterpreting the tones in my post. Well, they could have easily put less focus on making the game look good and a little more focus on weapon variety. After all, if they can devote eight members to dungeons alone, why not do that with the ranged fighting aspect of the game?

We were talking about loading. Firing is another subject altogether. My character SHOULD stop for a second while they aim and fire. In Oblivion, they had you slow down to an almost stop while you have the arrow pulled back which was nice to see. Very skilled archers stop for less than a second. However, with a bow, you never have to stop to load. Get it yet?
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Zosia Cetnar
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:28 pm

Obviously the task to add crossbows was not too big. They consiously decided to NOT add them because, more than likely, it would take away from time for something else they personally found more important. How do you explain this to someone like you...

This game doesn't have Lances.
This game doesn't have Throwing Axes.
This game doesn't have Spears.
This game doesn't have Flails.
This game doesn't have Cestus'.
This game doesn't have Kukris.
This game doesn't have combat oriented staves such as a quarterstaff.
This game doesn't have darts.
This game doesn't have throwing knives.
This game doesn't have boomerangs.
This game doesn't have man-catchers.
This game doesn't have tridents.

This game doesn't have a lot of things. Crossbows is one of those things.

And yes, I do believe that your opinion that Bethesda has a "lack of a desire to implement variety" is silly no matter how inconsequential you think it is.


Once you make a special weapon of a totally different style of combat you'd best make it more interesting or people will [censored] even more instead of taking what they've been given. Its not that I'm complaining about the fact people want more weapons its just that there will always be people who will want more no matter what they add. :\
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Matt Bee
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:21 am

Obviously the task to add crossbows was not too big. They consiously decided to NOT add them because, more than likely, it would take away from time for something else they personally found more important. How do you explain this to someone like you...

This game doesn't have Lances.
This game doesn't have Throwing Axes.
This game doesn't have Spears.
This game doesn't have Flails.
This game doesn't have Cestus'.
This game doesn't have Kukris.
This game doesn't have combat oriented staves such as a quarterstaff.
This game doesn't have darts.
This game doesn't have throwing knives.
This game doesn't have boomerangs.
This game doesn't have man-catchers.
This game doesn't have tridents.

This game doesn't have a lot of things. Crossbows is one of those things.

And yes, I do believe that your opinion that Bethesda has a "lack of a desire to implement variety" is silly no matter how inconsequential you think it is. Variety is the central most concept in this and all previous Elder Scrolls games.

Now that you mention it, we only really have the most basic weaponry. Flails would be hell to implement, but it surely would be damn terrific.
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Jessica Stokes
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:20 pm

Now that you mention it, we only really have the most basic weaponry. Flails would be hell to implement, but it surely would be damn terrific.

Hell yes it would. Going all Castlevania style on some zombies would be fun.
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QuinDINGDONGcey
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:45 am

I don't think you're giving the artists enough credit. That said, Bethesda should really pay their artists to make more weapons and armour.


After the horrible mess they made of robes in Oblivion, I refuse to give them credit. Not to mention their art has remained relatively unchanged. There is actually a thread floating about that details valid complaints regarding the art style in Oblivion/Skyrim compared to what we saw in Morrowind. I would suggest reading that, especially since it was well written.


Ehh. Crossbows were used in formations and preferred because of how little training you really need for them, not because of variety and how "cool" looking they were. In hindsight I probably don't miss them because I find long bows to be more favorable over the slow to reload crossbows, which could be someone else's preference over the longbow. Throwing knives on the other hand would be loved by all my assassin characters because it would be a quick solution to a big snag with a band of guards who have discovered me somehow. That way I've inflicted some fast damage before closing in with Melee.


I know exactly what purpose crossbows served and I know what their overall function is but the fact of the matter is this; this is a game and real life limitations do not apply. Real world logic does not have a place here. Basically what I'm saying is, is that everyone here needs to learn to separate reality from fantasy and quick, because I am not interested in hearing about some psycho who chops his family up because he thought they were a group of Cliffracers. I enjoy crossbows for the sole reason that they do take longer to reload. It's like having a sniper rifle in your hands; you can't just fire all willy-nilly and expect to hit something. You have to be calm, know to control your breathing and then take your aim to get off that shot to fell your foe in one go. That's far more exhilarating then pulling back a quiver of arrows at an absurdly rapid rate. It would also add a bit of depth to the role-playing experience The Elder Scrolls games offer.


While I am not overly concerned that crossbows are not in, the argument about reload time is weak, the crossbow is also a good stealth weapon, if you can take out the target using stealth then the reload time means nothing.


Indeed. Reload time isn't an issue but it's akin to pulling back a second arrow or bringing back your arm to take another swing with your axe.


Instead of paying high values for celebrities to do voices.


They have celebrities doing the voices?


I'm not entirely sure where you're getting the thought that he thinks they are incompetent or lazy, he said they did not have the desire. think of that what you will but I agree if they wanted to they would have but they didn't. they worked on marriage, Bar brawls, finishers (where you can kick but not as H2H?) but not weapon variety. so :shrug:


Well, I'll admit, I do give off that vibe a tad but that's definitely not what I'm trying to say.
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Lilit Ager
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:59 pm

Now that you mention it, we only really have the most basic weaponry. Flails would be hell to implement, but it surely would be damn terrific.


It would be something awesome to have against a heavily armored foe or a particularly crude bunch of bandits or skeletons.
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rebecca moody
 
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Post » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:23 pm

Okay that answers none of my questions but okay. I could say what if there were no GOTY, but I'm afraid I will most likely never understand your hatred for DLC that IS worth paying for. That's even though you will be playing it later in GOTY anyway... I'm confused, there is no difference, only one is physical.
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Irmacuba
 
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