How so? If it's really just a reskinned version of the bow, it would take considerably less time than just about anything else. The problem with your logic is, is that very few (if anyone) have been asking for that and some of it wouldn't quite fit in. There's also several weapons you listed that were in Morrowind and gave ranged users a good deal of variety. That's what I don't understand, you claim "Variety is the central most concept in this and all previous Elder Scrolls games" yet here you are arguing against my desire to have crossbows implemented in order to give people something other than bows to use. Contradiction much?




No they didn't, you need to go back and play Oblivion. Actually, you WOULD have to stop to load an arrow. As I just mentioned, you would either slam into something or fall over if you didn't and while you could move and fire, your accuracy would be abysmal.

No one is saying (at least that I remember off hand) that they don't want them in. People are saying there are legitimate reasons why they are not.

Add to that the overall tone of the OP (which does not come in the form of a "suggestion" as you put it), and you have backlash. To most people, it's obvious there are reasons why some weapons were not included. Different people have different levels of what constitutes a proper amount of various weapons in a game like Skyrim. To the OP, there was "no excuse for it outside of the lack of a desire to implement variety." Which is silly.

Off Point: People here understand well the difference between reality and fantasy so I find such abrasive and crude comments to be a bit insulting to the community here. But that's just me.

On point: I was only just stating what crossbows were used for and not defending the lack of variety. A little realism never hurt and some things sacrificed to make it more fun also makes it all the better. Its that mix that makes me like the elder scrolls series. I like your bit about weapons with a better need for precision and care, because that could open weapons like the crossbow up for people with that sort of play style.

I would argue that a lot dont. If I had a nickel for every time I heard "that isn't realistic" or 'Imurshunz", Id own the ES series.

Quite frankly, I get a little tired of having to repeat myself about not using reality as a way to substantiate your argument when it comes to video games. I can understand the necessity for SOME realism but people expect everything they don't use, enjoy, etc. to adhere to real world mechanics while what they do like, can break whatever rules it wants. It's annoying and my tolerance for obnoxious behavior, statements and so on is completely gone.

That's just it, how are people supposed to fully enjoy a game that boasts variety yet fails to deliver in certain areas? There are some requests that are blatantly absurd or would require too much from the developers but I think giving us crossbows as a way to supplement our ranged repertoire is very reasonable.

They do not have the same weapon variety as MORROWIND. They do have a similar variety to the weapons in OBLIVION.

I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing against your desire for crossbows. I've been arguing against the reasoning behind your stated reason that there are no crossbows. It would be nice if you could comprehend arguments and respond to them directly instead of constantly using straw mans to make you feel better about your side of the meta-argument. The following argument: "no excuse for it outside of the lack of a desire to implement variety" is silly. And the rest just comes off as a long whine.

After all, do you think your voice will cause crossbows to be included in the game?


A re-skinned version of the bow would be a terrible way to add a crossbow in my opinion. But I suppose that would make you happy.



Oh yeah. I had been playing Nehrim for a while and modified it with the improved stealth and critical hits mods that you can pop on top of it.

Shame on Bethesda.

The Elder Scrolls series hasn't been a shining example of variety for quite some time now. It's actually one of the most common complaint I hear from people who prefer Japanese role playing games.

I was personally content with the amount of variation Morrowind provided but I'm biased.

The problem with your logic is that it is not just a re-skinned version of the bow. Brand new crossbow models would have to be made and animated, and if you've ever tried to model and animate something, you'd realize it's a hell of a lot of work and takes a lot of time.

You have to understand that Bethesda has a deadline for their games. Some things make it, some things don't. Obviously, crossbows were seen as a less important feature compared to other things, and thus were left out. Maybe there wasn't enough demand for it. Maybe there wasn't enough demand for ranged combat in general (you yourself said that you almost never play pure ranged characters). The point is, Skyrim is a huge game and they won't be able to fit everything they wanted to into it, and if some other thing was left out instead of crossbows, that part of the game could be criticized for lack of variety just as easily. Bethesda has to try and please the most people possible. They can't be perfect.

I would use "it would take time to include a lot of weapons" as an excuse if I didn't know any better. But clearly in the case of Morrowind and even Daggerfall they did not fail to deliver a good amount of variety in some form or another so not having time to make something like a spear or a crossbow is not an excuse. I could think of many scenarios where a crossbow would be useful in Skyrim, such as in assassinations and dealing with something fast because you had already knocked the arrow onto the weapon earlier. And a spear would be preferred over a sword in some areas, such as dragon slaying, where the creature is particularly resistant to slashing and you need something designed to pierce well.

well the answer to your question is simple. Bethesda has limited resources and time. They want to put in all kinds of stuff but in the end, they have to make money. They could through all the time in the world and have the game go into vaporware to try and please everyone, but as history shows, Vaporware pleases no one. No one liked Battlecruiser, no one liked Daikatana and no one likes Duke Nuke 'Em: forever. Bethesda has to balance what gets put into the game and sadly they could not put in every weapon they wanted too.

Part of the reason that crossbows weren't in was that Beth needed to fix ranged combat for Bows first, they overhauled the ranged combat to make bows useful and more satisfying to use. Sadly having that much effort meant that they didn't have time to add crossbows. And I don't think the OP would be happy with Morrowinds treatment of cross bows (they were clumsy weapons that required to be shot multiple times as soon as they were loaded. There was no calm aiming, it was like emptying a Glock clip in slow motion, there was no finesse.) In the end, it's better to have one style that works than 3 that don't. Bows, Crossbows and throwing weapons worked very poor in Morrowind.

I also hate the argument that Bows are boring weapons for the unskilled, True Archery requires a lot of skill and patience to use. a Skilled archer could be deadly at long range as well as accurate, they are not a willy-nilly weapon either.

Bianca ( from DAII) That's what Skyrim needs, a Crossbow auto-loader

I never liked crossbows and felt they don't belong on this world. I'm happy they didn't waste dev time on them. Bows are much better for this series.

Oblivion had virtually no weapon variety and removed most of what was in Morrowind.

Because that's pretty much what your statements are implying and please, don't use words you don't understand. I understand my vocabulary is slightly larger than the average internet user but that doesn't mean you need to start incorrectly throwing terms around in a vain attempt to make yourself look "smarter" or "more refined". How is it silly? You really don't have an argument and it seems you've mostly been following what others have said. How does it come off as a long whine? If you expect me to respond to further posts from you, I suggest you start putting a little more effort and detail into them.

Did I ever say or imply that? No. I'm simply voicing my opinion on the official forums to vent my frustration and I'm doing it in a very calm and civil manner.

...





JRPGs are horrible when it comes to variety, mostly because they tend to follow the same format. Cutesy anime style, physics defying hairstyles and oversized weapons.

I enjoyed the variety Morrowind offered! I literally have no complaints about that game and to me, it was Bethesda's masterpiece. I would kill to see it with updated graphics and mechanics.




You need to read the previous posts before you make the assumption that I'm the one asking for a reskinned version of the bow. On the contrary, I was using that logic against him. Yes, for one inexperienced person it is a difficult challenge but people do it all the time and they don't even get paid for it. Bethesda, however, has a large team and a great deal of resources devoted to the various aspects of their game so to say it would require much effort on their part is laughable. Actually, they really don't have a deadline for their game unless they set it themselves and they don't have to adhere to it. The question isn't whether crossbows were an important feature or not but whether or not they were even considered. The fact that we're still getting a dozen different melee weapons should show you that it really is a lack of desire on their part to expand out and give ranged users something unique. Why? I don't know, I'm not them. Actually, I would be more than happy to criticize the removal of spellmaking since implementing that requires even less effort than the crossbows.




Of course and it's a perfectly legitimate that would fit whatever era this game is in. Spears would be nice, I suppose but I prefer halberds and even then, I'm not a fan of melee so it's not really important to me especially since melee users already have a bit of variety to what they can use. I wouldn't be arguing this at all if there were more than just bows for ranged weapon users to play with but seeing as how that's not the case, I felt the need to post this here. Admittedly, it's all futile but seeing how other people react and what they think sort of does make this worthwhile.

Why are there no crossbows, spears, werewolves, mounted combat, attributes, h2h skill, realistic physics, dargons with bigger wings or smaller frames, HUD that meets my specific expectations, better faces, better bodies, better cohesion between faces and bodies, more landmass than oblivion, parrying, single handed blocking, right handed shields, cloth physics, spell creation, "dwarves" and guns.

Are we done here? Use the search bar, because this question was beaten to death back in the spring..

That's really the problem with gaming developers nowadays, they rely too much on player data to come up with game development decisions. They take a peek at the percentage of gamers who've finished the campaign; the percentage of people who use a certain weapon style; the percentage of players who use that one particular skill, and then cut out what people don't use.

The scary thing about this philosophy is that very soon, you're gonna cut everything that made your game unique. The problem isn't that you're catering to the majority, it's that you're ONLY catering to the majority and sticking strictly to what you think is safe. That kind of thinking kills diversity and lends to boringly safe repetition. :facepalm:

They set the deadline. If they have to compromise so much just for better graphics, or becasue of console hardware limitations, they should have just waited and made a better game. Its not like Beth is in financial trouble or anything. they could have easily just waited if they are confined by the 360/PS3.

I really don't know what word I used that was so long and difficult that it doesn't make any sense to your "large" vocabulary.

You're not really making a lot of sense anymore. Instead, you are insulting.

If you're asking me why I think the following argument is silly "no excuse for it outside of the lack of a desire to implement variety," it's because that argument includes no information that substantiates the claim. It is entirely opinion and you state it as fact. Which is worse than silly, it's irresponsible. I was just trying to be nice about it.

I'm glad you admitted to just venting some frustration, because that is certainly how it reads. (See: whine)

That's Zenimax/Softworks call. Not BGS's. Not ours. They don't have an infinite budget regardless.

That's who I was talking about. You dont need an infinite budget to get features and mechanics in your game. Looks like they are selling out at an alarming rate.

Is this Spring? No. Should I necro a dead thread? No. Are there numerous topics that pop up repeatedly right before a game is released/shortly after it's release? Yes. Are you wasting your time? Definitely.




Agreed.

I apologize. I skimmed.

Just because they are a company doesn't mean their resources are infinite. Also, it's not like their entire team is devoted to ranged weapons, or to creating weapons in general. The few people working on this particular aspect of the game used the time they had to add in what they thought was most important for the game to have, probably based on data they had of people's experiences playing previous games.

They (Bethesda Game Studios) do have some kind of deadline because the publisher (Bethesda Softworks) makes them set some kind of deadline. Just like any other line of work, your boss isn't going to say, "Here's a project, you have all the time in the world to do it. Take 20 years if you want to." I suppose they could delay if they really needed to, but how do you decide what you delay for and what gets cut? Delay too much and you become Duke Nukem Forever Part 2.

The reason for melee weapons as opposed to crossbows is probably because they require less work to animate. One handed weapons (swords, maces, axes, anything one handed) will all use the same basic swinging animations, thereby allowing more variety because only modelling for each weapon type is required. Same with two-handed and dual wielded weapons.

Spellmaking being removed was, according to Bethesda, for balance purposes. But that's a whole other argument.



I don't disagree with you, but if that's the best way to make money and still make a really good game, that's what Bethesda's going to do.

They were removed because crossbows, pikes and javelins are TERRIBLE weapons to use against a dragon.

More features takes more time, costs more money. Talk to Zenimax, not BGS.

Which shouldnt be a problem for the most important RPG (I say game), that there is. Obvious selling out to appeal to newbs is obvious.

OP: If crossbows were in, how often would you use them? I'm willing to bet that you would only wield them consistently with one toon, if that.

The devs did make the conscious decision not to add them. I don't know why, but I doubt it's because they didn't want to, and yet some of you would have them delay the game for this?

Not more quests, more believable AI, or a more engrossing storyline?

Sorry but, IMHO, it sounds like some of you want 10 tons of coal instead of a fist-full of diamonds.

If you're going to complain about something why not go big?