Why aren't Bretons taller? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:42 am

If Bretons are crosses between Aldmer and Nords, why are they the same size as Imperials? Shouldn't they be taller?

» Thu May 26, 2011 11:47 pm

If Bretons are crosses between Aldmer and Nords, why are they the same size as Imperials? Shouldn't they be taller?

It's not aldmer anyway i dont think it ever really specified. Ayleid maybe but not Aldmer.

Two words: Wood Elves

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:12 am

I get the feeling that they're the filthy, medieval ones of the continent.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:14 am

Nords and High Elves eat better food and thus they grow taller. Bretons spends to much time drinking wine.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:15 am

It's not aldmer anyway i dont think it ever really specified. Ayleid maybe but not Aldmer.

Two words: Wood Elves

The Bretons' origin can be traced to the First Era of Elder Scrolls history, when the Aldmer attacked and destroyed the Nedic holdings in Skyrim. Many of the female Nords captured in the raids were subsequently enslaved as concubines, and gave birth to mixed Aldmer-Nord offspring, termed Manmer by the pure-blooded Nords.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Breton

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:21 pm

If Bretons are crosses between Aldmer and Nords, why are they the same size as Imperials? Shouldn't they be taller?

Why should they be taller?

» Thu May 26, 2011 11:26 pm

Why should they be taller?

Because Nords are tall and Aldmer were tall

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:26 am

Because Nords are tall and Aldmer were tall

Were Aldmer tall? Dunmer and Bosmer aren't. And don't the Altmer selectively breed?

Pick-and-mix genetics isn't so simple in any event.

» Thu May 26, 2011 10:06 pm

Because Nords are tall and Aldmer were tall

Sure but why should that matter?

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:09 am

Were Aldmer tall? Dunmer and Bosmer aren't. And don't the Altmer selectively breed?

Pick-and-mix genetics isn't so simple in any event.

Tall and golden were probably the closest thing.

Wood Elves soiled Time's line with mannish wives. Or they probably dated really manly woman.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:38 pm

Were Aldmer tall? Dunmer and Bosmer aren't. And don't the Altmer selectively breed?

Pick-and-mix genetics isn't so simple in any event.

Altmer are the closest living relatives of the Aldmer. They're tall. The Aldmer were tall. Dunmer and Bosmer changed over time, while Altmer have done their best to remain as close to the Aldmer as possible.

Sure but why should that matter?

Please stop.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:44 pm

Why aren't they taller?

Well...
I'll tell you why!!!!

Unbeknownst to most forumers and TES Loreologists. Many Bretons take side jobs as whack-a-moles for the famous coin-op arcade game, Whack-a-mole.

All of that hammer bashing to the top of the head could really stump a person.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:11 am

Because Nords are tall and Aldmer were tall

We really don't know if Aldmer were tall. Evidence seems against it, as Dunmer and Orsimer aren't especially tall and the Bosmer are the shortest race on Tamriel. And the Altmer selectively breed, so it is likely that they breed themselves to be taller.

The Bretons are descended from Aldmer and Nedes, not Nords, so the Nords have nothing to do with it. In fact, I think that Bretons are closer related to the Nibenese and the Kothringi than the Nords.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:11 am

We really don't know if Aldmer were tall. Evidence seems against it, as Dunmer and Orsimer aren't especially tall and the Bosmer are the shortest race on Tamriel. And the Altmer selectively breed, so it is likely that they breed themselves to be taller.

The Bretons are descended from Aldmer and Nedes, not Nords, so the Nords have nothing to do with it. In fact, I think that Bretons are closer related to the Nibenese and the Kothringi than the Nords.

The Bretons' origin can be traced to the First Era of Elder Scrolls history, when the Aldmer attacked and destroyed the Nedic holdings in Skyrim. Many of the female Nords captured in the raids were subsequently enslaved as concubines,

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:15 am

From PGE, third edition.

There is evidence that early beast men of one variety or another may have been the original inhabitants of High Rock, but the Aldmer coming from Summerset Isle were the first to settle and form permanent communities. The early Nedic people who arrived next were stumbling upon a highly sophisticated culture, and were quickly overwhelmed and absorbed. One of the earliest tales of Khosey describes a Nord raiding party attacking a group of what they presumed to be Aldmer, but who were, on closer inspection, a mongrel race between elf and human, the remnants of the earlier lost Nedic tribe. They were somewhat awkwardly called "Manmeri," but we know them today as Bretons.

You should really label your quote so we know where you got it.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:20 am

From PGE, third edition.
You should really label your quote so we know where you got it.

I did. Scroll up. I quoted the same thing twice because you evidently didn't read it the first time.

Even if Bretons came from Nedes and Aldmer, they should still be taller. Nords are the closest genetically to Nedes, so they had to have been tall (at least taller than Imperials), and Aldmer were tall.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:26 am

I did. Scroll up. I quoted the same thing twice because you evidently didn't read it the first time.

The UESP isn't he best source. Use The Imperial Library instead.

Even if Bretons came from Nedes and Aldmer, they should still be taller. Nords are the closest genetically to Nedes, so they had to have been tall (at least taller than Imperials), and Aldmer were tall.

The Nords aren't closest genetically to Nedes. Nedes are the native men to Tamriel. Nords are from Atmora. Nibenese, Breton, and the Kothringi are the closest genetic relatives to the Nedes. The Nords have always been different than the Nedes for a long time. It's like saying I am Argentine which is decended from the Spaniards thus I am descended from the Italians. The Nords and the Nedes are different, and Bretons descended from the Nedes.

Read my former post about the Aldmer. Aldmer does not equal Altmer, and as Altmer is the only Mer that is especially tall, it seems to me that the Altmer grew taller.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:09 pm

I did. Scroll up. I quoted the same thing twice because you evidently didn't read it the first time.

Even if Bretons came from Nedes and Aldmer, they should still be taller. Nords are the closest genetically to Nedes, so they had to have been tall (at least taller than Imperials), and Aldmer were tall.

When it comes to lore, the PGE 3 has a higher authority then a UESP page.

If the PGE 3 says Bretons came from Nedics, then they came from Nedics. End of story, unless another official source contradicts the PGE 3.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:22 am

The UESP isn't he best source. Use the[post="http://www.imperial-library.info/"]The Imperial Library[/post]instead.
The Nords aren't closest genetically to Nedes. Nedes are the native men to Tamriel. Nords are from Atmora. Nibenese, Breton, and the Kothringi are the closest genetic relatives to the Nedes. The Nords have always been different than the Nedes for a long time. It's like saying I am Argentine which is decended from the Spaniards thus I am descended from the Italians. The Nords and the Nedes are different, and Bretons descended from the Nedes.

Read my former post about the Aldmer. Aldmer does not equal Altmer, and as Altmer is the only Mer that is especially tall, it seems to me that the Altmer grew taller.

I'll agree with you on the Nords/Nedes. I did read your post on the Altmer, and it's already been refuted.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:05 am

I'll agree with you on the Nords/Nedes. I did read your post on the Altmer, and it's already been refuted.

Where?

» Thu May 26, 2011 10:27 pm

We really don't know if Aldmer were tall. Evidence seems against it, as Dunmer and Orsimer aren't especially tall and the Bosmer are the shortest race on Tamriel. And the Altmer selectively breed, so it is likely that they breed themselves to be taller.

Preservation is important to the Altmeri. They don't want to get smaller.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:04 am

More on "Nedic Peoples"

Historians often portray the human settlement of Tamriel as a straightforward process of military expansion of the Nords of Skyrim. In fact, human settlers occupied nearly every corner of Tamriel before Skyrim was even founded. These so-called "Nedic peoples" include the proto-Cyrodilians, the ancestors of the Bretons, the aboriginals of Hammerfell, and perhaps a now-vanished Human population of Morrowind. Strictly speaking, the Nords are simply another of these Nedic peoples, the only one that failed to find a method of peaceful accommodation with the Elves who already occupied Tamriel.

From the MW book: Frontier, Conquest, and Accomodation.

It seems like the Nedic Peoples can be devided into Proto-Cyrodilians, the ancestors of the Bretons and the Nords. This book clearly makes a distinction between Nedic and Nordic peoples.

» Thu May 26, 2011 10:45 pm

Where?

You weren't the first to bring it up, before you even posted that I said:

Altmer are the closest living relatives of the Aldmer. They're tall. The Aldmer were tall. Dunmer and Bosmer changed over time, while Altmer have done their best to remain as close to the Aldmer as possible.

Additionally, Altmer breed to strengthen their resemblance to the Aldmer, if the Aldmer weren't tall, the Altmer wouldn't be.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:11 am

Preservation is important to the Altmeri. They don't want to get smaller.

Oh I see where you refuted it. But they must have changed a bit. Thousands of years don't go by without some change. Either way, I don't agree with the statement "the Aldmer were tall so the Bretons were tall" if you use the logic that the other Mer races shrank. Dunmer and Orsimer hardly interbreed and they are the same height as Bretons. And they are of pure mer lineage. So why would Bretons be tall then.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Stealth Edit: You're argument is in a bad position. You can win the one about Altmer and Aldmer, but that implies that even pure mer have shrunk so the Bretons wouldn't be as tall either.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:50 am

You weren't the first to bring it up, before you even posted that I said:

Additionally, Altmer breed to strengthen their resemblance to the Aldmer, if the Aldmer weren't tall, the Altmer wouldn't be.

But there is no evidence for the Nedic peoples being tall. And since you stated that most Bretons are descendant from male Aldmer and female Nedics, there is really no reason for them to be tall, since most of the children in Tamriel bear the racial traits of their mother.

Just like "Notes on Racial Phylogeny" states:

Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present.