This.

I use a PC and a 360... and I hate Microsoft! :thumbsup:

I completely agree as well.

And the first electronic computers were developed before the end of WW2. anolog computers go even further back, like those based on punched cards in 1800s and the Antikythera mechanism in the classical era.

Despite my earlier post I have had to delete posts - last chance guys to have a constructive, and civil discussion.

Sorry if i've gotten kinda heated up - these kinda threads always get me ticked off, but all i'm saying is that i'm tired of more and more traditionally PC developers like bethesda are switching sides and making PC gamers second-hand gamers. Its slowing down gaming as an industry and is partial to blame for why most games are exactly the same nowadays. I want gaming companies like bethesda to take PC gamers seriously and tailor it for the PC, because thats what Elder Scrolls has always been. I quit buying call of duty games years ago because of this kinda stuff, and honestly, i don't want the same thing to happen to bethesda just because console gaming is larger now. I feel like theres a growing absence of ethics and loyalty in this industry, and the only people so far i feel i can completely trust to stick with PC is valve, which is why they are my favorite developer. 6 years ago i may have said bethesda, but now theres not even a question.

Thank you, I never ment for people to freak out about the topic.

Console Users were just as cheated with DA2. The problems with that game wasn't caused by it being dumbed down for consoles, but the fact that Bioware cut too many corners to make up for the limited time and finances that they got for the game. The more action oriented combat would have been great if it got the time to tweak and balance it right, not add a lazy ninja appear technique to make battle last longer.

I think one good things consoles do is that they put a leash on graphics [censored] and force a company to make due with outdated hardware, allowing for PC gamers that don't have the latest and greatest to enjoy a great game. And usually the resources are wasted on graphics. I will give that if games are made with keyboard and mouse, they tend to have more complex and, if done right, deeper controls. But a controller is quite capable of deep controls too and if done right a game can be great on consoles and PC, and I think Skyrim will be one of those games.

The biggest gripe I have versus console ports is that the games are mainly fixed to the horizontal plane. The controller in comparison to a mouse and keyboard restrict the player greatly in how he perceives and moves through the world. Most of the time producers take away most of the Z axis in a game and when they do have it, there sure is a lot of cover and other tricks to make it easier for the player. When games like this get over to the PC it is either very easy or really bland. A challenging game on a console like Halo is a walk in the park on a PC. That is the biggest problem, a game can be absolutely great on a console, but not so on a PC. This has nothing to do with being a bad or good player. Console games are apples and PC games are oranges. That is why I myself don't like it when a game is ported. Though I have to say that game developers have improved in this since say 2006 to now. It starts getting less obvious, but I still don't like it.

This is so true. I got a laptop 2 1/2 years ago, and now it has trouble running spore and BFME2. My old xbox however, which I had for eight years never had this problem. I prefer consoles for the fact they are highly affordable when compared to most gaming rigs. I have neither the time nor money to build some ultra-powerful rig to play video games at ultra fast high tech shadow enhanced dual core processor whatschacallit.

I see no reason why consoles are dragging pc gamers down, in an entrepeneur sense, we help you by providing revenue and allowing bethesda to carry alomg. I wouldn't buy skyrim for pc, so that's that.

Oh, and great OP

i understand why you're mad, but there is something else you have to think about.

The gaming PCs update to fast, so if they were to sit down and make PC version on the current software, it wouldn't be up to date anyway because it would have been developed on software from 1-3 years before.

YES!, Consoles are more for racing games and FPS, whereas PCs are for RTS and TBS,

RPGs (and FPS to a certain degree I suppose) are in the middle ground.

Havent had my $700 laptop for a year and it's already usless for many games.

I agree to all of it, as well as to certain points of your deleted post, but sadly there's little we can do about it, and insulting isn't going to help in any way...

Well, as I always say, all we can do is trust in some companies (hey, BF3 and ARMA 3 are going to be pure PC games ^^), and mod the **** out of Skyrim. Maybe even the DX11 features of the Creation engine can be ludicrulously exploited :hubbahubba:

P.D: Yes, I'm quite optimistic

Well, I think it's a psycholololological issue when you get right down to it. Probably related to nostalgia filters (which I've never had truck with). There are, as we all know, loads and loads of changes between TES games. Some of those changes are good, some less so, but because celebrities tend to be inflated in our minds to being half a mile high and made of gold we tend to ignore older mistakes entirely and try to explain away newer ones as not their fault. Consoles happen to be a very large new factor in TES game development. Therefore, there is superficial relationship between any changes made since Daggerfall and the existence of consoles. So when a person is in the mode of not wanting or not being able to acknowledge that any changes are simply something the developers want to try differently this time around they look at said superficial correlation and say causation.

It's really just one prolonged, unfortunate misunderstanding.

I tend to disagree, actually. By forcing devs to use outdated hardware, it bottlenecks what they can do, not only with graphics, but with optimization as well. It's better to build for a high-end PC system, and then scale it back for consoles. This way, High-end PC gamers get what they want, midrange PC gamers can scale back to console levels or lower and get what they want, and console gamers tend to be none the wiser because the game looks and plays fine on their system.

Honestly, a lot of people on here are the hardcoe PC gamers with the tricked out gaming PC (that I cant afford). I understand they want the game at its best (IE- what only really expensive PC's can do, and consoles can't), but I think the fact that the game is sorta made around consoles provides a good balance. More computers can run it, less chance of making the game too big, and it appeals to PC gamers and console gamers alike.
Not all PC gamers are like that, but met quite a few.

Actually...PC gamers are apples...because of the Apple computer.

Meh, I've been gaming since before the first personal computers were made. I've always been on a pc because that's what I grew up with, but I have absolutely nothing against consoles. From my perspective it's a matter of a business (Bethesda or any other company) following the money. Businesses that want to keep share holders happy are going to do their utmost best to ensure they beat the street and bring in the $$$. In our current world of affordable access that means a system that the majority of people are able to afford to run their products, aka consoles. I am not worried about this game or that game being good or bad for a particular system as I usually wait and read reviews of others to see how well it works on PC or consoles and what the issues are/have been and how well they've been fixed. However, with TES and Bethesda I have never waited as this is a series I've devoured each time a new one has come out and I don't wait for reviews, but pre-order. I am confident that Bethesda will make a great game for both Console and PC and I'm dying with the wait until 11-11-11. See you all there and I look forward to your posts about just how awesome this game is after you've played your first Skyrim bender and fallen unconcsious onto your keyboard or console pad. :tes:

1) Laptops aren't even the best choice to play games, by far. Being also a relatively encased system means you can't update it the cheap way. If you want to play games, a desktop is way cheaper, more reliable and powerful.

2) I bought a desktop 4 years ago, even making some bad choices when doing it (like the monitor), and after all that time I only have to spend 200 euros on a new GPU in order to run again all the actual games at max detail at 1680x1050. So if you buy a desktop and it cannot endure at least 5 years, YOU have definitely done something wrong.

Don't understand this one either. What's "too big?" This is mostly due to a lot of console gamers (mostly Xbox, honestly. This is simply because of space limitations on DVD as opposed to Blu Ray) thinking that having multiple discs to change over is stupid. I remember playing PS1 and having to switch up discs all the time for Final Fantasy, and PC gamers are used to multi-disc installs by now.

If you can make a lush gameworld that's enormous and needs to fit on three DVDs, do it up. You'll hear no complaints from me.

I'm pretty much a console player right now, not by choice.

I wouldn't say that consoles have ruined games, but they have made PC gaming a much less viable option.

Take sports games for instance. I was forced to buy a console because 1) The only boxing game was on conosles 2) Madden NFL was being ruined on the PC because the console was the main platform. Today, you can't find a sports game on the PC. They don't exist any more, thanks to the console.

Most PC games are pretty much just ports from the console, and alot of them are extremely bad ones at that. The console is to blame for that.

I know people will disagree, but the console is slowly killing off PC gaming. Most PC games are just flight sims, MMO's and the occasional RPG like Skyrim.

The console is the new gaming platform for the future. They haven't ruined games, they have made PC gaming pretty much irrelavant.

I'd say the dropping popularity in complex games, and strategy games (turn and realtime) has contributed more than consoles.

I actually agree. I love the Final Fantasy games (I didn't play 11 and won't play 14) and i didn't care about the multiple discs. They were actually symbols of acomplishments to me. A lot of the multi-disc games i remember were good anyway (I.E. Final Fantasy 7-9, Legend of The Dragoon, Lost Odysey, ME 2, L.A. Noire) so i don't see the problem.

I agree with that, maybe not so much the rest of it. Even then that isn't the fault of the consoles themselves but developers taking shortcuts with the PC versions. Look at what DICE is doing with BF3 and you can clearly see that a game can truly be made the best it can be for all platforms. It just requires a developer who is dedicated to that.