Nope with about >20 smithing I can upgrade IRON to fine and even Steel, but the lady at the forge can make Plate and Orcish even at relatively low levels which require higher skill that could make Steel beyond flawless.

Look, it comes down to this. If they were to try to implement this system, someone would demand an enchantment service as well. Before long, we would be able to pay people to do almost anything for us, just like training.

There are no enchantment/smithing services because they want YOU to use the skills. It's as simple as that. They don't want us to pay for improvements, but to work toward them ourselves.

By your reasoning, I should be able to take ingredients to the alchemist and have her make me a master level potion. Or take soul gems to a mage and have him enchant my gear. These skills simply aren't meant to work that way.

The problem is I don't need to take any enchantment perks to enchant anything. I can use any enchantment I want with no perks. I can't create any armor I want even if I have 100 skill in smithing.

What does that have to do with anything? The mages guild questlines have always been completely ridiculous in that you become arch mage over mages with double your knowledge.

Nowhere did I suggest that the game was real, but your example is a bad one nontheless. In a knowledge-based skill such as magic, it's FAR more feasible for someone to become extremely proficient in multiple areas.

I understand what you're saying, but isn't it pretty dumb to force an assassin to toil away for hours just to get improved gear, when in a realistic environment the profession blacksmith could do it?

Then why could every shopkeeper who sold weapons and armour in Oblivion repair your gear?

I would have liked to see, as mentioned, blacksmiths who could improve your gear to a certain level (depending on your level), and only specific types of armour too, either divided between light and heavy armour, or smiths who could improve specific types of armour, orcs from the strongholds could improve orcish armour etc.
The latter would probably have been too much trouble for most people, although it would have been cool.

Also @Shagsbeard, what about Eorlund Gray-Mane then? He's the greatest blacksmith in all of Skyrim.

Totally agree with the OP, weird that I hadn't seen any post about this before. If you don't want to smith, you should be able to let the blacksmith MAKE the armor for you if you have the required materials and same goes for enchanting stuff run to the city's court mage and he should be able to enchant it with watever you want. It should cost you quite some gold but at least make it an option, that people who don't want to smith or forge can just get the job done by a professional

Paying for training is a valid way of attaining skills, and actually far more plausible than developing them by doing, but that's another topic altogether..

You should absolutely be able to pay a master level alchemy trainer to make a master level potion, but it should always be expensive enough that you can't abuse it, and so that making it yourself would always be cost effective. That's enough encouragement for people to develop the skills themselves. Hell, as it stands you can already buy armour of all kinds which you can make for free, by your logic we shouldn't be able to buy that armour because it doesn't encourage us to develop those skills. The limit you're setting is arbitrary; you suggest that it's ok for us to purchase things we cannot obtain without skill in that area, but not buy a better version that we also couldn't obtain without skill in that area, despite the fact it would come at a heavy cost.

And how is smithing not knowledge based, what cuz i cant read about it? How does that sound? Might as well do away with skill books as well. I am assuming you meant reading when you said knowledge based.

We have alchmists that give us potions?

So why not enchanters to enchant things for us and Smiths to upgrade things for us?


It wouldnt be to the best versinos fo stuff and be extremely expensive (smae way store-bought potions are)....but it would help with the problem of not being able ot do all crating skill with a single character.

TBH I don't even care...

There is NOTHING in this game that cannot be defeated with one strike of my blade of woe and 30x sneak damage. Not even that dude that guards Sauvengarde.

People need to suspend their disbelief. There's plenty of things in any RPG that are not believable, and make no sense if you interpret them by real world standards. You need to do this for the game to be enjoyable. Questions like "why are all these chests not looted before I get to them?" break you out of your game-mind. You need to learn how to play these games, and it requires that you adapt to their sense of reality... not to force your ideas as to what reality they should have but don't. You can always pick at a game making it seem foolish... it's not even all that hard to do. You're not impressing anyone.

Realistically, blackmiths don't even make bows, let alone upgrade them. You'd need to find a bowyer.

Well you assumed wrong. I mean that magic is an art presided over by scholars, where studying is the way in which you learn new spells. Practice would be an element obviously, but the bulk of the skill is developed through study.

Blacksmithing and fighting are two physical skills. You can have all the knowledge in the world, but you won't be able to do them without hours upon hours of physical practice. I hate to use anology, but it'd be like trying to learn to swim without actually getting in a pool.

ive thought about this too. screw balance, this game and tes games before it never had it, dont worry so much about it (within reason). it made no sense to me that i was the only person in skyrim to be able to upgrade gear, and i do so thru magical inspiration rather then finding schematics.

couldve had so much more depth in this game...

This is what I meant.

Probably because the Smith's Union doesn't allow that.

Under their current contract, Smiths can train you, but they're not allowed to take jobs on the side to make more gold.

PS: OP, did you fly with them back then? If you did, that makes you a lot older than me lol (I'm 64 btw).

The difference is of course that we have a legitimate gripe with the fact that you're forced to become a blacksmith to be most effective as a warrior, which doesn't make sense at all; whereas you simply try to fill the gaps with your imagination - hence your theory presented earlier.

It has nothing to do with how plausible it is for a dungeon's chests to be full, it has to do with the fact there is no alternative means by which to become the most effective warrior, other than by being a master blacksmith. It doesn't take much armour skill for a master smith to hit the armour cap, how does that make sense, when a craftsman has higher survivability in battle than a warrior? We need choice. That choice should come at great expense, but there should be a choice nontheless.

The game totally should have this option. I'm tired of making characters that require the mandatory spending of perk points in that skill, because if you don't, later on everything will utterly destroy you. and on that note a guy who can enchant your gear as well. a couple of good things to spend gold on.

I have never been allowed to explore certain builds because of mandatory perk spending. I have never spent any perks in speech, or pickpocketing in any character i have made because the game doesn't allow me to afford to do so.

Well since its obvious getting you to see it my way is a lost cause, I am going to go power level my smithing at the skyforge and surpass ol grayman in approximately 1 hour. Dagger after dagger.

Indeed I did. 817 and still kicking.



Well, I have a level 31 with no Smithing perks. Combat isn't too tough, but a better bow would be nice (using an unimproved Nightingale Bow, but I used to console to get the highest leveled version).

i agree you should be able to pay for upgrades but it is possible to be a master smith and master warrior just not an often occurrence

It's possible in the game, not in real life.

There is a reason professional fighters are better than amateur fighters..

Gratz to you, and thanks for your service. I was born in Holland, now living in the US. But traveled extensively as a child through Europe starting in 1951. Lots of memories. I worked for a few decades at a nearby Air Force Base, they used to fly F-15 Eagle, now changed over to F-22 Raptor - quite different from what you flew back then. But technology marches on.

Happy holidays to you and your family.

Actually, what would make more sense to me would be to find already improved items out there in the world. Right now, the only weapons and armor we find are base versions.

With enchanting, you find weapons and armor that have been enchanted.

You find potions out there in the world.

Yet not a single piece of armor or weapon has been improved apparently.