Eh, has nothing to do with how defined the main character is or not. You couldn't join the generic "bandits" or "raiders" in Fallout 3, or Skyrim, or Oblivion, either. They're generic enemy mobs.

ya but an entire base of them got defeated by 1 Courser who honestly was so weak he needed to use a stealth boy just to survive 4 seconds against me, while the raiders have some pretty tough bosses with Fatmans.

And yes "Fatmans" is the correct because Fatman is a proper pronown Refering to the name of the bomb and not referring to a fat man their for making it's pleural "Fatmans" instead of "Fatmen".

Even if you can't join a raider faction in FO4 they have the other elements you mentioned. So in part i was right, and you are just coming off as a snob yet again. To me it seems you are more interested in beeing right than having a discussion or answer properly when someone counters your arguments. But you are right, or with a little edit - we have nothing to talk about.

We roam around the commonwealth, heavily armed, killing whomever we want and taking their stuff.

Join the raiders? We are the raiders!

Courser lore wise is very very powerful, but obviously you're the MC of the wasteland and as such they're nothing to us. But pure lorewise, our character as an army soldier and for that matter half of wasteland would stand little chance against a courser.

A Hero? I played all Endings and strange is i never felt like a Hero after them. Maybe iam a Hero for some Settlers in some Cases but a Hero of the Game? Sounds very strange in Fallout4. Whatever you choose for a Faction in some Mission you kill even unarmed People just different Settlers you could say. As a "real" Hero i never would do that. But there are no Choices in the Game u have to do this. And thats why u dont play a Hero at all.

You kill so many Raiders and you say they have just a little Amount of Recruiting? If u compare the Raider Dungeons you will see that more Raiders are in the Commonwealth as Settlers, many more. So the little Amount of Recruiting is on the Minutemen Side.

"The Law of the Jungle". Even Gunners should be a playable Faction. To be a Mercenary is a good Part to, and since you choose in the Dialog the Money Option u are a kind of a Mercenary. So why not joining the Gunners?

I think a questline where you kill a raider leader and become the leader yourself would be cool. You could set the rules and lead them how you like. Travel with a band if them.

But one of a raider's defining characteristics (at least as far as the average raider grunt goes) is that they're cowardly, opportunistic scavengers that gravitate to people who display dominance and power. And as the player character, you are potentially the most powerful and dominant person in the wasteland. Many raider leaders become leader by killing the person in charge before them. It stands to reason that if you suddenly went up and slaughtered their leader in front of them, the lesser members would be terrified of you, and would want to work under you rather than risk death.

Well Okey hero is maybe not the exact term, but protagonist, which still means you're meant to be above being clubbered into joining little raider gangs, or gunners.

yes but all of your companions can easily hit a Courcer while he uses a stealth boy and all of the gunners were using missile launchers, how in the world did they not kill him on the first floor?

Raiders should be renamed as Islamc State militants bc they are always high, incompetent, dumb, awful at fighting, pretty much IS really.

This is true, too. But raiders in FO by their very nature spend the vast majority of their time victimizing people who are weak, poor and frightened. There's no real story to be told there and not a lot of gameplay value to it.

I do, though, see how a story built around the Gunners could work. As guns for hire they're really just an amoral reflection of the Minutemen. Depending on who's giving them the caps they could easily have some interesting things to do. Maybe that's an idea for some DLC.

Mainly because he serves as a mini boss for the quest, otherwise as I said, they're cyborg killing machines who have little problems avoiding enemies and dispatching them in the most efficient way. They're stronger, faster, have faster reflexes, superbly trained and what not than any armed human. They almost remind me of imperial assassins from 40k, tho i think they'd fit better in with bounty hunters.

Weak logic. Anyone that plays Elder Scrolls knows that the Dark Brootherhood come to you. What he's really asking here is "Why didn't the devs do something alike here".

Because people would complain because morals/ethics. Bah. Well I want to be a bad guy sometimes.

I would think a secluded religious cult of killers and a bunch of drug high murdereing looters are a bit different to use as a comparison.

Raiders aren't the Dark Brotherhood. They're Bandits.

RPG means to play a Role like u want. But when there are no different Options for Roles then we just have a simply Gore Shooter here. Maybe you just dont liek to be the bad Guy but atleast there shoudl be an Option for it.

You should have at least been able to mingle at the racetrack or combat alley.

True, I just want to group up with some bandits for a change...the destined hero and good natured protagonist is played out.

They both kill People, it doesnt matter if they are good or evil. So they are the same

ya I just tested that mini boss against 2 rookie gunners with missile launchers, he went flying into the air quite dead. They hit all 4 shots on his head while he was using his stealth boy. Myth busted

No they are not, one is a important, power cult which makes sense for a video game protagonist to join, the other is cannon fodder that exists curly to prevent danger to the player.

Being able to join raiders is like if a D&D player could join a kobold clan.

I think the fact that we're even having this discussion shows how spoiled we've become in the last 20 years.

What this complaint really boils down to is "why isn't there fifth faction I can side with in this huge, non-linear sandbox of a game?"

Why is it Important to join that Faction? And the other not? Where is the Different to have the Choice to join the evil in Skyrim but not have the Choice in Fallout? Sry but this makes no Sense

I suppose if you could become an enemy of every faction and hole up somewhere hoarding stolen loot then you would have become a raider...

Not very dramatic though...

Unless they created a raider DLC with radiant missions and other stuff to do..