why can't levels be removed entirely? : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:11 pm

And safe. And eventually, quite boring.

Let us say every Final Fantasy had the same mechanics from number 1.

I would've quit before 7.

Yes but they was imrproved threw the years the stats and skill were not thrown out just altered. I love all Final Fantasys but the core RPG elements are intact. They should improve the formula in Skyrim not remove the entire concept of stats, skills and levels.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:06 am

Actually Traveller didn't even have post generation character progression. It is still an rpg, one of the first, so that kind of says something about the whole "if this isn't in, it isn't an rpg" idea.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:57 am

No its not, its an action RPG.

TES is and always was an Action RPG.

Which is to say its real time, thats it. That's the only actiony thing about the game. Other than that, it is full on RPG. If it was turn based, nobody would ever call it an action RPG. Stats dictate most everything, its an RPG.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:33 am

I personally think TES should focus more leveling system not an auto scale to player system either like Oblivion was.

For example there are level 20 dungeons period even if your level 1. Now being upper level doesn't mean UBER powerful god either it just dictates what armor/spells/weapons/equipment in general you can use.

Gear that you can use is based on your level personally I don't want to use the dedric armor at level 1 again.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:14 am

There need to be visual? If there are supposed to be visuals, yes. You described visual differences between someone who is magically strong and someone who is physically strong. Don't shoot me for trying to fulfill your imagination.

Well... I was meaning that an enchanted person could be tremendously strong, and not show any signs of it ~like a possessed kid that lifts and throws a guard (one handed) across the room.
*Yeah, they could have glowing white eyes, but they don't have to, and I'd find it more of a surprise if a 95 pound emaciated mage lifted my musclebound fighter off of the ground and tossed him over the town wall.

If you know his stats and your stats. You can calculate a x to y spell on z area for w duration which will kill him instantly. This is more RPG given examples in this genre which rely on strategy games origin too much. I think this has nothing to do with roleplaying and actually hurts it.

I've not played too many games that allowed the player to see the opponents stats; NWN would give you a challenge rating (and could list them as "Impossible").

One that does though is a favorite of mine ~and that is Disciples (2 & 3); Its an strategy RPG hybrid, and it does let you see what http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/D3a.jpg.

My character would never make a calculation like that. In my imagination of the scene, my character would notice a fur coat on enemy and try a fire spell, preferably a small amount of mana, not specific but close to one third maybe and watch what would happen and act accordingly, real-time. It is completely visual for me. So I want complete realization of my imagination in video game format which offers visuals+sound+interaction. As good as it gets, with technology.

I would like an RPG that noted the flammable garment and would add that to the ignition risk, and add damage from it ~and I'd be impressed by the game that allowed the victim to choose to take off the burning coat, and loose the extra burn damage per round or per second.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:29 am

I too believe that the genre would benefit from a complete skill system rather than a level system as that's more in line with how reality works. Levels are contrived and gamey whereas skills are elegant and realistic.

Whether or not you're using a level system versus a skill system has nothing to do with how the game plays (action vs. rpg etc.) other than the fact that a level system will restrict either you or your antagonists in artificial ways whereas a skill system will not. Skill systems are additive and inclusive whereas level systems are binary and exclusionary.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:03 pm

Well... I was meaning that an enchanted person could be tremendously strong, and not show any signs of it ~like a possessed kid that lifts and throws a guard (one handed) across the room.
*Yeah, they could have glowing white eyes, but they don't have to, and I'd find it more of a surprise if a 95 pound emaciated mage lifted my musclebound fighter off of the ground and tossed him over the town wall.

I've not played too many games that allowed the player to see the opponents stats; NWN would give you a challenge rating (and could list them as "Impossible").

One that does though is a favorite of mine ~and that is Disciples (2 & 3); Its an strategy RPG hybrid.

I would like an RPG that noted the flammable garment and would add that to the ignition risk, and add damage from it ~and I'd be impressed by the game that allowed the victim to choose to take off the burning coat, and loose the extra burn damage per round or per second.

That would be awesome to see the game read information based on the type of damage and watch the AI respond to the situation realistically.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:42 pm

"God characters" per se wouldn't be an issue, because not every skill is being used at once. Players do not shoot magic and swing their sword at the same time. Each skill is used independent of one another. In this case of having every skill maxed out, characters would have more choice in exactly what kind of character they choose to roleplay as. Instead of having to go through the tedious process of creating a new character and playing through everything again each time you want to try a new class or type of character, you simply raise the appropriate skills.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:22 am

And I would prefer knowing my PC's abilities as well as they do, before depending upon them. My take on this is that a character should know their own limits and level of confidence. If I'm roleplaying a character that is going to backflip over an attacker; then that character must ~positively must, have 100% confidence in their ability to do this. You don't practice these things in a real fight; and you don't want to find out that you need practice after breaking a few ribs and making it easier for the attacker to succeed. No one actively tries to become a blackbelt by exploring dark alleys and fighting off muggers; they train (level by level :laugh:) to reach the point where they can defeat one or more attackers (and they know it).

I am assuming that you are the one who plays your chracters so you should know what you have achieved and how difficult previous challenges were. Since you participated in them. Since you experienced how your character performed in previous tasks you should have an idea of how they will perform in new ones.

I don't agree. Health is not Hitpoints ~not entirely. Hitpoints are an amalgam of physical health and experience (hence you get more of them with experience ~though that's a bit simplified). Two athletes (Twins!) get punched in the chest... one is a sprinter and one is a boxer, both weigh the same, are built the same, and have the same general diet and health ~but one of them gets punched all the time, and is used to it, and even instinctively parries a bit, while the other lacks these habits and falls to the ground in pain.

*Both take the hit, and take identical damage, but the boxer does not react the same way as the sprinter to the hit.

You can't take it 100% literally, and realistically its not the same for a knife (say..), but in general, this is what hitpoints seem to represent in most of the RPGs that I have played.

Defensive skills should account for different character's physical conditioning since one who has trained in absorbing (armor, shield spell, blocking, fortifying effects) and avoiding damage (acrobatics) would indeed absorb a punch better and be able to avoid it.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:56 am

"God characters" per se wouldn't be an issue, because not every skill is being used at once. Players do not shoot magic and swing their sword at the same time. Each skill is used independent of one another. In this case of having every skill maxed out, characters would have more choice in exactly what kind of character they choose to roleplay as. Instead of having to go through the tedious process of creating a new character and playing through everything again each time you want to try a new class or type of character, you simply raise the appropriate skills.

using an self ENCHANTED dagger that you created using SMITHING, covered in POISON you brewed, to SNEAK attack the enemy after casting FORTIFYING MAGIC on your self to increase your strength and nimbleness and using ILLUsion to reduce the opponent's ability to see you. Ya you can not use more than 1 skill at once. :facepalm: