Why can't mods just work? : IV

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:14 am

Since I've started playing oblivion again recently it seems that i spend more time trying to figure out why I CTD every 5 minutes than playing the game.

Actually, it doesn't just seem like that, it is like that.

Oblivion isn't really a very good game without mods installed, but no more than like two of them work together without breaking everything.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:39 pm

Selecting and installing mods is something you have to do with patience and care. Nobody but you is responsible for installing mods correctly and making any two mods chosen at random play together nicely.

Rather than complain about a problem you have not attempted to solve, you should be specific about the problems you are having (start by posting the list of mods you are running, in order) and requesting assistance.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:07 am

Selecting and installing mods is something you have to do with patience and care. Nobody but you is responsible for installing mods correctly and making any two mods chosen at random play together nicely.

Rather than complain about a problem you have not attempted to solve, you should be specific about the problems you are having (start by posting the list of mods you are running, in order) and requesting assistance.

Trust me, I have tried fairly hard to solve these problems, but since 75% of the crashes happen with nothing explaining them at all, it's fairly hard to figure out why.

I just wish Oblivion had a mod system that wasn't so easy to [censored] up.

Edit: My game crashed three times since i posted this. One was after waiting, one was for looking at a tree wrong, and one was for attacking a person.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:35 am

Adding a mod to your game is the same as taking someone else's custom-created piece of software and inserting it into a piece of commercial software on your computer.

Anything at all can go wrong. The mod itself may have bugs. The game does have bugs and oddities. Your installation can be ever so slightly off in any number of ways.

Expecting the process of modding your game to be painless, brainless, quick and flawless would be naive.

Everybody here is some kind of hobbyist and there is all kinds of arcane knowledge floating around - the kind that only comes from experience. If you find it fun, stick around and grow your own experience-born reservoir of knowledge.

gothemasticator

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:04 am

Adding a mod to your game is the same as taking someone else's custom-created piece of software and inserting it into a piece of commercial software on your computer.

Anything at all can go wrong. The mod itself may have bugs. The game does have bugs and oddities. Your installation can be ever so slightly off in any number of ways.

Expecting the process of modding your game to be painless, brainless, quick and flawless would be naive.

Everybody here is some kind of hobbyist and there is all kinds of arcane knowledge floating around - the kind that only comes from experience. If you find it fun, stick around and grow your own experience-born reservoir of knowledge.

gothemasticator

That's pretty much it, if you expect to play the game with lots of mods installed, you must accept that sometimes, you're going to encounter problems. The more mods you're running at the same time, the greater the risk you have that something is going to go wrong, it isn't always that you didn't install a mod properly, sometimes it could be conflicts between too mods, and what mods might conflict isn't always obvious. Sometimes, the actual cause of the problem is quite baffling, this isn't to say that there isn't a cause for the problem, just that it's very difficult to find it.

In general, unless the game always crashes at a particular point or is rendered unplayable, I just live with it if there isn't an obvious way to fix it, and curse at my computer whenever it crashes without a clear explanation.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:31 am

Why can't life be perfect.......?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:56 pm

Translation: "Why can't mods and/or other people do everything for me, without me having to read, figure things out for myself, or change any files or settings"...?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:17 am

Translation: "Why can't mods and/or other people do everything for me, without me having to read, figure things out for myself, or change any files or settings"...?

Rofl. Because that is exactly what i said.

I'm simply stating that oblivion is the worst game i have ever played in regards to mods working together.

When i used to play this game like two years ago everything was so much more simple.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:32 pm

Well good you have a sense of humor about yourself - very refreshing on boards especially by those who are frustrated.

I think the reason is because this game can be modded far more than others. Take witcher for example or mount and blade - the mods are often not very indepth.

The resulting depth of modability goes hand in hand with complexity in modding and issues of stability. Then the ohh shiny factor of all the new stuff to entice you into trying combinations of mods that you really should take a while to test individually.

Your crashes sound like system strain though - that is my gut reaction. You have perhaps added too much at once and perhaps even incorrectly.

Check out the links I posted http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1094434-optimizing-ram-and-cpu-usage/page__view__findpost__p__15979445 for a start in a very involved hobby,

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:42 am

Rofl. Because that is exactly what i said.

I'm simply stating that oblivion is the worst game i have ever played in regards to mods working together.

When i used to play this game like two years ago everything was so much more simple.

I'd say it's become much easier the last few years with the maturity of BOSS, Wrye Bash and OBMM. Dump each mod in an own folder and install them as BAINs. Install scripted OMODs with OBMM. Sort it with BOSS (I only have one esp not included in the latest masterlist; a small housemod, nothing LO-breaking) and rebuild the Bashed Patch with pretty much every option there is. Download OBSE and some handy plugins (weOCPS (to get rid of a lot of crashes that slips through your BOSSed load order) among others), and there you go.

Sounds lengthy but it's nice and tidy and (for me) almost no crashes. I can't say for sure that all this didn't exist two years ago but it certainly hasn't been harder to get a crashfree Oblivion imo o_O

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:24 am

Most other games I know don't even offer the option of modding... if anything, they have a tool that allows you to create your own adventures. That just can't be compared to what we get here with the Construction Set.
It's obvious that those simple adventure plugins (which can be pretty complex and interesting, sure) are not as prone to conflicts and game-breaking bugs as the mods we're making here.

We are professional modders, and we get professional problems. :lol:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:17 am

I just lept back into Oblivion about a day now after 4-5 months, Im intent on installing FCOM no other mods currently its a clean install. I finished putting in OOO but now I want to make its assets into a BSA or atleast in its own folder or package so I can sort it and other mods out in the future. I want to do away with the messy Textures>11folders>26 folders> messs > mess > oooh file I need......

does bain for wyre bash do this? I know OBMM does this as well but its incomplete (as far as Im doing it) because OOO doesnt pick up anything from the BSA

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:40 pm

Most other games I know don't even offer the option of modding... if anything, they have a tool that allows you to create your own adventures. That just can't be compared to what we get here with the Construction Set.
It's obvious that those simple adventure plugins (which can be pretty complex and interesting, sure) are not as prone to conflicts and game-breaking bugs as the mods we're making here.

We are professional modders, and we get professional problems. :lol:

I wish I was a professional, that would be nice... :laugh:

As others have said though, Oblivion modding is hard, and it is complicated. Using mods is not something you can do quickly and easily, and this gets more and more true as you increase the complexity of the mods that you use (ie. a texture replacer is not difficult to use, but FCOM + heavily scripted mods is significantly more difficult).

You mentioned that you spend more time troubleshooting than playing. I thought that was the game?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:51 am

I just lept back into Oblivion about a day now after 4-5 months, Im intent on installing FCOM no other mods currently its a clean install. I finished putting in OOO but now I want to make its assets into a BSA or atleast in its own folder or package so I can sort it and other mods out in the future. I want to do away with the messy Textures>11folders>26 folders> messs > mess > oooh file I need......

does bain for wyre bash do this? I know OBMM does this as well but its incomplete (as far as Im doing it) because OOO doesnt pick up anything from the BSA

I'll just ignore your hijacking attempt.

On a side note, i really wanted to install FCOM also, but i spent like 3 hours downloading and installing crap, and following directions as precisely as i could, just so my game could crash before it made it to the main menu.

I gave up.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:31 am

Translation: "Why can't mods and/or other people do everything for me, without me having to read, figure things out for myself, or change any files or settings"...?

Rofl. Because that is exactly what i said.

On a side note, i really wanted to install FCOM also, but i spent like 3 hours downloading and installing crap, and following directions as precisely as i could, just so my game could crash before it made it to the main menu.

I gave up.

Yeah, I really wonder why your game would crash before the main menu... :whistling:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:16 am

I'll just ignore your hijacking attempt.

On a side note, i really wanted to install FCOM also, but i spent like 3 hours downloading and installing crap, and following directions as precisely as i could, just so my game could crash before it made it to the main menu.

I gave up.

well here is my LO i use UFCOM maybe it will help you i have No CTD at all I use Boss & weOCPS + Oblivion Stutter Remover It helps a lot to stop CTD and here is my System info

ATIRadeon HD 4800 ( 512megs.)
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~1868 Mhz
Total Physical Memory 4,096.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 2.66 GB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 5.09 GB
Page File D:\pagefile.sys

Spoiler

codebox]Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 GTAesgaard_2.esm
02 Jog_X_Mod.esm
03 All Natural Base.esm [Version 0.9.9]
04 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
05 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
06 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34]
07 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]
08 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB3]
09 DA Run Fatigue.esm
0A CM Partners.esm
0B CustomSpellIcons.esm
** TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp
** TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp
0C Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.4]
0D UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
0E Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
0F DLCShiveringIsles.esp
10 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
11 SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp [Version 1.05]
++ Shivering OOO.esp
12 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
13 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
14 Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
15 Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
++ Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp
++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]
16 FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]
17 Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp
18 All Natural.esp [Version 0.9.9]
19 All Natural - SI.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp [Version Final]
1A Weather Debug Ring.esp
++ Symphony of Violence.esp
1B Echo_ChapelChant.esp
1C AmbientTownSounds.esp
1D MIS.esp
1E MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp
1F Atmospheric Oblivion.esp
20 weather inside [seasons] v1.2.esp
21 7lbsBedrolls-OBSE.esp
22 Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 3.4.3]
23 Map Marker Overhaul.esp [Version 3.0.2]
24 Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp [Version 3.0.2]
25 DLCOrrery.esp
26 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
27 SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp [Version 1.03]
28 DLCVileLair.esp
29 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
++ SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp [Version 1.03]
2A DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
2B DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
++ SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp [Version 1.03]
2C DLCSpellTomes.esp
++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
2D Adonnays Classical Weaponry.esp
++ FineWeapons.esp
2E HiddenSkulls.esp
++ RustyItems.esp
2F tda_Armoury.esp
30 XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp
31 Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
32 FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9]
33 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
34 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3]
35 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.34]
++ OOO-Water_Weeds.esp [Version 1.32.Final]
++ OMOBS.esp [Version 1.0]
++ OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 1.0]
36 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
++ FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp [Version 0.9.9beta2]
37 FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9]
38 FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_LessRats.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced Vanilla.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
39 Mart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Slimes.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Fiends.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Lanterns.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Adventurers.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - No Uberhulks.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_Archery.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ Fransfemale.esp
++ EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp
++ EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer for OOO.esp
++ EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4MMM.esp
3A Lock Bash Omega.esp [Version 1.3]
3B Ivellon.esp [Version 1.8]
3C GTAesgaard.esp
3D GTAesgaard_2.esp
3E hackdirtabyss.esp
3F HeartOftheDead.esp [Version 6.2]
++ HOD_delayer.esp
40 LetThePeopleDrink.esp [Version 2.5]
41 MrPwner's Ambient Inn's.esp
42 thievery.esp
43 thievery - EE patch.esp [Version 1.0]
44 VaultsofCyrodiil.esp
45 The Lost Spires.esp
46 Mighty Umbra.esp
++ FCOM_MightyUmbra.esp [Version 0.9.9]
47 mythsandlegends.esp
48 Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp [Version 3.0.0]
49 DropLitTorchOBSE.esp [Version 2.1]
4A EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp
4B Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp [Version 1.0]
4C seorin's Artifact Fix.esp
++ ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp
4D Quest Award Leveling SI.esp
4E Quest Award Leveller.esp [Version 2.0.1]
++ Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp
++ Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp [Version 2.1.0]
4F DA Fatigued Running.esp
50 DA Sprint.esp
51 Enchantment Enhanced.esp
52 EnchantmentRestore.esp
++ EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp
53 Denock Arrows.esp
54 SaveSkillTrainingForLater.esp
55 Mayu's Animation Overhaul.esp
++ DMC Stylish - Specialanims.esp
56 Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp
57 Let There Be Darkness - Mehrunes Razor.esp
58 Let There Be Darkness - Lost Spires.esp
59 CuteElf11.esp [Version 1.2]
5A bgMagicEV.esp [Version 1.7EV]
++ bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp [Version 1.68EV]
++ EVE_KhajiitFix.esp
++ No Vampire Feeding Message Box.esp
** bgMagicEVShader.esp [Version 1.7EV]
++ bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp [Version 1.68]
5B BubbleFx.esp
++ Real Lava 1.3.esp
++ bgMagicEVNoSummonGlow.esp [Version 1.62EV]
++ Bashed Delayers NE - MERGE ONLY.esp [Version 1.06]
++ CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp
** All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp [Version 0.9.9]
5C Bashed Patch, 0.esp
5D FormID Finder4.esp
5E Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp [Version 0.2]
[/codebox]

EDIT : note that iam useing Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced Vanilla.esp becouse my CPU cant take the increase Spawn Rates and i CTD

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:26 am

Selecting and installing mods is something you have to do with patience and care. Nobody but you is responsible for installing mods correctly and making any two mods chosen at random play together nicely.

Rather than complain about a problem you have not attempted to solve, you should be specific about the problems you are having (start by posting the list of mods you are running, in order) and requesting assistance.

Pardon me, but I like how your presence in this topic gives off a different meaning than what's being said.

Or maybe I'm so keen to all the mods moderation style now >.<

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:20 am

I guess i've been lucky with mod installing as i've never had too many problems. I did have an "assured crash after one hour of gameplay" bug, but the 4GB patch took care of that. My current load order featruring OOO, MMM, COBL, LAME, RBP, Integration and a whole bunch of miscellaneous mods amounting to nearly 200 esp's works fine. Just threw everything to the data folder, asked BOSS, bashed the patch and started playing. It doesn't get much easier than that

Only bug i've noticed is that the game sometimes crashes when trying to powder gems, propably a conflict between MMM and OOO?

My FCOM install attempt was an epic failure though :blush:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:36 am

The simple answer is that if the modders had obeyed the "rules" established by gamesas....i.e. had used the CS as it was released, had treated each record as a complete whole, and had strictly obeyed the "rule of one", then mods would be a lot easier. Either they would work, or they wouldn't, most likely.

However, people invented OBSE, and people invented Wrye Bash, and people learned how to beat the CS into submission and make it do things it was never intended to.

So, mods got really complicated sometimes.

And really, really awesome.

Thankfully, though, people also invented BOSS and BAIN and OBMM's OMODs and TES4Edit and other things that make life simpler and better.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:33 am

RocketLLama, do you understand the way modding really works in Oblivion and Morrowind? Many custom mods will overlap and overwrite each other upon installation. Please try to remember that the modders here are working for FREE, and are not being paid for their time and effort. It's just the nature of the beast to have mod conflicts- especially if you are running a bunch of custom mods at the same time. So instead of complaining, please try to appreciate all the work that the modders have done for free. Also, more times than not, outdated hardware drivers or conflicts will cause performance problems or crashes in-game. Thank you. :icecream:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:51 am

Rofl. Because that is exactly what i said.

Well, yes. "Rofl." Because what I was trying to get across is that your answer is contained within your question. And sure, it was in all likelihood a rhetorical question in the first place. Even so. Why "ask", then, when you already know what needs to be done. OK, you evidently haven't done it, so far. But that doesn't mean you are necessarily incapable. You could try, and see how that goes, rather than railing against the fact that you might need to try in order to get the results you're wanting...

When i used to play this game like two years ago everything was so much more simple.

Once again, the answer to that...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:07 am

My FCOM install attempt was an epic failure though :blush:

My first attempt at it, if I remember, was a botched one too. Mainly because I kept forgetting to install the 500mb part of Frans. It's really easy to miss >.<. Actually, I have corepc to thank for giving me the heads up on it, otherwise, I probably still would have been playing FCOM with frans half-installed and seeing missing meshes, invisible people.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:20 pm

OP, we have not seen your mod list or load order, despite an earlier request for same.

We are not here to support badmouthing people who volunteer their time and work to the game and this community, but that is all you have done.

Thread over.