Umm don't they say the people who are most insane are the ones who seem sane?

I thought it was the tools that corrupted/tempted Lord Dagoth, not the heart.

From Plans to Defeat Dagoth Ur
"Kagrenac's use of these tools and the disappearance of the Dwemer race marked the end of the war. Kagrenac's tools were recovered by Lord Nerevar and Dagoth Ur. Dagoth Ur was left to guard the tools while Nerevar came to consult with us, his advisors. In Nerevar's absence, Dagoth Ur experimented with the tools upon the heart, and was corrupted."

Apparently it was a combination of the two.

I have always taken "corrupted" in this context to mean that Dagoth Ur was infected with corprus, the divine radiation poisoning emanating from the Heart. Because Voryn Dagoth was a letter written in uncertainty like the Nerevarine (see e.g. http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#11), he could overtake the Heart and control its blight spread.

___TWM

Dagoth Ur has pretty interesting plans. Are they all his own?

I would say yes. Lorkhan does not control Dagoth Ur, because the Ghost of Shor (i.e., Wulfharth) helps the Nerevarine destroy Dagoth Ur, although I will admit that the "Lucky Coin" isn't a major claim to aid.

Wulf (as an avatar of Lorkhan) was obviously against Dagoth Ur. Lorkhan could not control Dagoth Ur b/c he was a letter written in uncertainty.

___TWM

I will ask a straight forward question, but one that deserves a place in Brevity place.

What is Blight, and what is Corprus? If Corprus, the divine disease comes from the Heart of the Aedra Lorkhan, then I presume it comes from all Aedric spirits. If not, why is the Heart of Lorkhan special in this regard?

Are Masser and Secunda vessels for Corprus then? Beings the bodies of a "dead" Aedra? (Lorkhan)

I thought Corprus was crafted by Lord Dagoth, not the Heart?

Hmm. Without the Heart, Corprus woudn't exist, and without Dagoth Ur Corprus wouldn't exist either. Either way, Corprus needs the Aedric power of the Heart.

I think, anyway.

Discounting the middleman doesn't work in this situation.

How right.

Corprus is a divine transformation. Dagoth Ur does seem to have crafted it, as it destroys his enemies, while strengthening his followers.

Muthseras,

Regarding corprus disease, I can relate the following:

It is no secret that the work of JHUNAL and the Empire have taken me to Vvardenfell island several times. During one such trip I spoke with my friend, Maela Kaushad about "corprus". Here is what she said: "Corprus is a deadly disease that attacks a victim's mind and body. Victims grow mad and violent, and their bodies sprout wild, revolting growths. This disease comes from contact with corprus beasts or other blight monsters."

Another friend of mine, Artisa Arelas, has something similar, but not exactly the same regarding the subject: "In Morrowind you worry about three kinds of disease -- common disease, blight disease, and corprus disease. Common disease isn't so bad. You can get cured at shrines or temples easily -- but you need to get cured, or people don't want to talk with you. Blight disease is more serious, and potions and cures are harder come by. Corprus disease can't be cured. And some say vampirism is a disease. But the only cure for a vampire is destroying it. Policy on vampires is 'kill on sight.' Or 'run on sight.' Corprus is a deadly disease profoundly affecting a victim's mind and body. Symptoms include dementia, violent behavior, and distorted, disfiguring skin growths. It may be contracted from corprus beasts or other blight monsters." She later reiterated her statements by saying "Corprus is a rare form of blight disease. Sometimes crusaders get it from fighting corprus monsters inside the Ghostfence. We can't cure it. Victims are sent to the Corprusarium beneath Tel Fyr, the tower of the Telvanni wizard Divayth Fyr. Victims go mad, and the body becomes fat and distorted with unnatural growths. It is always fatal. Sometimes it progresses slowly, sometimes in a matter of days."

A major source of information has been Divayth Fyr and his...wives. Divayth said this when last I attended a meeting in Tel Fyr: "Did you know that corprus makes you immune to disease?" and "The divine disease can't be cured. ... The course of the disease varies. Sometimes it's rapid, sometimes very slow."

Uupse Fyr stated "The disease takes many forms. For some, the progress is rapid and terrible. For others, the effects on the mind and body are very slow. It's a remarkable affliction, in that once having contracted Corprus, one is completely unaffected by any other diseases. We've always hoped that our research would permit us to isolate the beneficial aspects of corprus, but, alas, we've not been successful."

Corprus is hard to contain, even making it once into Fort Buckmoth. It was there that Raesa Pullia said "I've heard of corprus disease before, but never seen it. The trooper's flesh was swollen and covered with growths. His bones twisted and lost their shape. He spoke to himself, as if in a dream. We didn't recognize him at first, except for his clothing and armor. The fort chaplain tried spells and potions, but couldn't cure the disease. He died soon after he reached the fort. Didn't realize how fast corprus kills. It sure wasn't pretty. The troops seem shaken. I'm a little worried myself, to tell the truth."

The peasantry of Ald-ruhn was in an uproar when they heard that corprus was in Fort Buckmoth. The local rumors went something like this: "There's blight plague in Fort Buckmoth! Trooper went mad, turned into a fat, beast with sores and flabby chunks of flesh hanging off. Then he dropped dead, just like that. You can't make me go anywhere near that fort."

It is known that corprus victims secrete "weepings", which fall from their fleshy sores, or so Tendris Vedran said to me.

The origin of corprus is the Heart of Lorkhan, and Lorkhan is Aldmeri for "Doom Drum", which is likely why Uupse Fyr could sooth them with the sounds of the guarskin drum.

The Ashlanders spoke of the corprus victims by saying "the 'corprus men,' they crawl from under the mountain. They prey in the night like demons. They follow the blight storms, walk in the storms, bring death, disease. Hunters won't hunt, herders won't herd. Scared to go out on the land. Ahemmusa are people of peace, not of war. We fight, we die; we don't fight, we die. We must have help, or there will be nothing left."

*************************************************

Regarding blight disease, on the other hand, I say this:

Maela Kaushad stated that "the four blight diseases are ash-chancre, chanthrax, black-heart, ash woe. They come from touching blighted creatures or from going about in blight storms. Unless you walk upon Red Mountain, you need not fear the blight storms. You need magical resistance to blight disease if you go there."

While working with the Temple during the Nerevarine Prophecies, I aided in the ..."questioning"...of "Dreamers". These Dreamers would answer questions regarding the blight as follows: "Lord Dagoth has sent the blight to destroy the foreigners, and to chasten those Dunmer who bend to foreign will. Those who oppose Lord Dagoth shall wither and die, while those who join Lord Dagoth shall be healed and strengthened, filled with the power and glory of Red Mountain, and inspired by the dreams of Dagoth Ur."

It is common knowledge among the local savants that "blight diseases resist common herbal and magical treatments, and are of two kinds: wasting diseases which attack one or more of an organism's systems, and abnormal growth diseases, which distort the organism's functions and structures. Natives avoid exposure to the Blight, and wear special protective garments when traveling in Blight-prone regions. You get blight diseases by fighting with diseased creatures. Normal creatures that get caught in blight storms can turn into ugly monsters. Blight diseases can't be cured by cure common disease spells or potions. You need special cure blight disease potions or spells."

The Ashlanders did not like blight at all, especially when it infected their herds. "Our herds are sick. And the game animals -- kagouti, alit -- they grow sick, too. When blight storms come, animals walk in the storms. They get sick, get the red taint. Then they go crazy, bite and fight, go mad, kill everything. Without the herds, without the game, we must starve."

In fact, Yakum Hairshashishi said "there is bad magic in the dust from Red Mountain. The grass dies, the kwama and guar go mad, bite and fight. These are very hard times for the tribes, so the tribes go raiding. Here there is not blight, and I live in big house and get rich and soft like a fat trader."

And not only the herds...Briring the Barbarian stated that "the following creatures are susceptible to blight diseases: kwama queen, kwama forager, kwama warrior, kwama worker, scrib, cliff racer, alit, shalk, kagouti, nix hound, and rat. Since blight disease is contracted by contact, after an encounter with these creatures, make sure you haven't gotten a blight disease."

May the Light of JHUNAL illuminate your searches, for I remain...


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

Word Merchant, it is clear you are a shining example of Julianos. I thank and admire your sustained endeavors in teaching. Now let me digest your words in order to think on the more divine properties of the disease.

The Heart lacks consciousness, it can't directly control people, and that still doesn't account for how Dagoth Ur got power. If he didn't do it by his own designs then how'd he do it?

You make the assumption that Lorkhan wants to return...

Dagoth Ur was a very adept enchanter and sorcerer. He hung out with Kagrenac and all the Dwemer extensively, so much so that he knew about the Numidium being built before Dumac the Dwemer's own king did. He also had a short while to learn from the tools and had a long time to work directly with the Heart. In the Tools Kagrenac just developed one way of tapping power from the Heart, nobody says that that's the only way. Dagoth Ur was a smart guy, he found other ways, perhaps employing the same concepts that the tools used just not with those exact objects...


Corprus is the divine power of the Heart transferred in the form of a blight disease. It gives the infected a connection to the Heart through Dagoth Ur. The power of the Heart causes growths on their body; if they choose to follow Dagoth Ur, they learn to control the growths and progress through the Ash Beast stages, if not the growths become out of control and they become corprus beasts. Yes, without either Dagoth Ur or the Heart corprus wouldn't exist, but any object of equal power would work; the only problem is that there is no object of equal power.
Lorkhan is a special case, calling him an Aedra isn't quite right, his relation to the world is different from theirs. And Masser and Secunda are unrelated, as are the Aedra.

Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into creating reality right? So am I right in beleiving Lorkhan was once an Aedra?

(And I always thought Masser and Secunda were part of Lorkhan's dead body)

Aedra are those Et'Ada that gave up part of themselves to create the Mundus. Lorkhan did not do this.

Lorkhan is both Aedra and Daedra and yet neither at the same time.

He is Akatosh/Lorkhan.

He is Sheogorath/Jyggylag.

He is Time/Creation.

He is Chaos/Order.

Hmpf. There goes my lovely belief that I partially understood the TES creation myth...

So the Et-Ada willingly created the Mundus? Where does the "Lorkhan tricked them by using their greedy ideas" part come in to it?

They gave in willingly, Lorkhan just didn't quite give them all the details concerning what they were willingly giving in to, that's where the trick comes in...

And they punished him for that I see.

Sorry for completely sidetracking the thread, but I've got another seemingly nooby question; where did the Aedra come from?

But basics are the best.

The sources vary as to the origins of the Aedra. I enjoy this exerpt from http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/anuad.shtml:
"The first ones were brothers: Anu and Padomay. They came into the Void, and Time began. ... Anu grappled with his brother and pulled them both outside of Time forever. The blood of Padomay became the Daedra. The blood of Anu became the stars. The mingled blood of both became the Aedra (hence their capacity for good and evil, and their greater affinity for earthly affairs than the Daedra, who have no connection to Creation)."

___TWM

ps: Lord Hyamentar, thank you for your recent kind words. They are very appreciated.

You must be learning all your lore backwards, just like me.

Aedra and Daedra are the et'ada, one level of subgradient below Anu/Padomay. They were orginally the same set of beings and just wandered around in the formless Aurbis chaotically. Then Lorkhan reached the edge of the wheel and say it sideways.

In one light, from another perspective it may have been voluntary...

There are two ways of looking at the question, there are the Aedra as they were before and during creation, and then as they are now; the two aren't the same. In the light of the discussion, I'll address the former. The parts in '......' are from Sithis, the rest is from the Altmeri Heart of the World:

"Anu... so that he might know himself he created Anuiel... [who] was given to self-reflection, and for this he needed to differentiate between his forms... thus was born Sithis, who... Anuiel would utilize to ponder himself. Anuiel... therefore became many things(parts*), and this interplay was and is the Aurbis. At first the Aurbis was turbulent and confusing, as Anuiel's ruminations went on without design. 'Sithis [had] sundered the nothing and mutated the parts*... these ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been...' [however] Aspects of the Aurbis then asked for... procedures whereby they might enjoy themselves a little longer outside of perfect knowledge. So that he might know himself this way, too, Anu created Auriel... [who] bled through the Aurbis as a new force, called time; 'this was... Anui-El, who made friends, and they called themselves the Aedra.' With time, various aspects of the Aurbis began to understand their natures and limitations. They took names... [and] 'they enslaved everything that Sithis had made and created realms of everlasting imperfection...'

'So Sithis begat Lorkhan and sent him to destroy the universe.' Lorkhan, was more of a limit than a nature, so he could never last long anywhere... As he entered every aspect of Anuiel, Lorkhan would plant an idea that was almost wholly based on limitation. He outlined a plan to create... a place where the aspects of aspects (the Aedra) might even be allowed to self-reflect. He gained many followers... [who] agreed to help Lorkhan. 'Lorkhan had found the Aedric weakness... they were also unwilling to go back to the nothing of before.' So they created the Mundus, where their own aspects might live, and became the et'Ada. But this was a trick. As Lorkhan knew, this world contained more limitations than not and was therefore hardly a thing of Anu at all. Mundus was the House of Sithis.

That is the Aedra up to creation, from there you can more or less just follow the rest of the http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml#Altmeri, if you happen to subscribe to that theory...

I would call giving up your heart to stabilize creation, "giving up a part of yourself to create Mundus". This doesn't make him an Aedra though, the Aldmer define that.