*DELETE* Somehow my post doubled...

Better than supporting locusts, a chained to the ground man in a freezer, a robot for greed or anarchy or a man that wants to eliminate the entire Mojave with death gas.

So reducing humans to war dogs is somehow better?

There is only one free man in Caesar's Legion: Caesar. Unless you're him, you're just a consumable in fulfilling his fantasy.

1. I think I remember that Legion has slaves, citizens and merchants as well.

2. Do people in the wasteland deserve freedom? Cause it's cause of that freedom that anarchy, prejudice, cults and gangs have been born. Someone needs to take it away and control it before it can be allowed again.

Come on, it's not fair to use crude descriptions to describe what the faction really stands. Sure, the NCR is corrupt and badly managed. But does that really compare with the Legion's use of slavery and child soldiers, brainwashing, complete removal of identity and purpose for their "citizens", extreme xenophobia, stubborn and foolish hatred for progressive technology, cruel punishment, sixism, and need to conquer and destroy anyone who doesn't agree with them. For the last part, you could argue that the NCR is similar, but their methods of conquest don't even compare to the Legion's. They wiped out a town in the cruelest ways possible just to send a message. The NCR is aggressive, but at least they're not barbaric.

I just knew this thread would devolve into generic arguing :shakehead:



@Madcat- Nice NCIS Reference :foodndrink:

Just out of curiosity, have you read the works of Thomas Hobbes? Your views are frighteningly similar.


I prefer the term 'debate.'

I'd rather a chained to the ground man in a freezer than an old egomaniacal king baby

As depicted, there are slaves, Legionnaires (basically slaves brainwashed into becoming war dogs), and dead. Merchants do business in the Legion territories, but given the propensity for the Legion to make deals in bad faith when it suits them... I wouldn't really want to trust the Legion for my safety.

The Legion eradicates anarchy by eradicating any level of independent thought. I imagine that if Lanius stated to Caesar why he pulled out if you talk him down would end up earning him a Man-Burning if Caesar's headaches weren't increasing in frequency and severity.

Prejudice? The Legion is rife with it. What's a man who isn't quite physically peak? A slave, or worse, a whippin' boy. What's a woman's position? A slave. A baby factory. Ghouls? Super mutants? Monsters. Cults? The whole damn legion is a cult to Caesar. Gangs? The culture of violence the Legion exhibits isn't much different.

The Wasteland needs someone to steer it. But that person isn't a megalomaniacal psychopathic manchild with a brain tumor.

Well it's mostly cause Madcats was so simplistic: "They're slavers, they're barbarians, they're evil, I can't understand how any one could consider them good."
I of course have far more detailed opinions about each faction but since he was simplistic and ignorant I thought I'd be too.


No, how so?


Well I have nothing against House.
For Vegas and the Mojave exclusively I think House would be best for it. As for entire states on the other hand it's Legion.

Maybe you do, but picking pot shots at House might pull me into this debate. :stare:

Edit at Bapitty- I can't insult Gabe for supporting 'unconventional' attitudes. I'm a fan of Niccolo Machiavelli myself. (Granted they believe in nothing similiar, but still :laugh:)

I gave nine points why in that very same post you claim I was "simplistic". Convenient for you to overlook them.

Ehh. These debates always end up with Pro-NCR folks taking a rather "superior" standpoint to those that side with the obvious underdog, the Legion. I'm not really a fan of typing the same reasons I've already posted over and over and over again, so I'll just say this.

The world of Fallout isn't our own. The "democracy" that is the NCR aren't the white knights they would appear to be (Bitter Springs...) and the Legion aren't the evil Darth Vader-Empire everyone loves to make them out to be. I realize it's easier to simplify it in this fashion, but it's simply not the case.

I'm pro-killemall.

I'd say Slavery (woman's rights falls in there cause they are all slaves in CL).

Also they are arrogant a-holes. Think they are better than you cause they can't think for themselves.

I'm not really a supporter of legion, nor an anti-legion guy, but to be fair, I'll add my two cents.

NCR is just as guilty for slavery. It had slaves as labor in places, then outside Shady Sands city limits, there was a slavers guild right there, full of slaves in pens. What did NCR do? Not a damn thing.

@Lee_roy- So is NCR. They are just as snobby and apathetic to anyone not under NCR's rule. Look at Primm. "HERP DERP, WE'D LOVE TO HELP PRIMM, BUT THEY IS NOT TEH NCR."

Hobbes believed in a government very much like Caesar's Legion. Basically, an authoritarian regime meant to control all of its citizens strictly. He believed that all humans are born evil, and that it is the duty of a government to be powerful enough to suppress their people and restrict freedom as much as possible, lest anarchy and chaos rule. Such beliefs are considered obsolete in modern times, but it could have some credibility in a world like Fallout. You should look into him; you might find some interesting things.

This, I shall not rest from my hunt until the ground of the very desert runs red with the blood of the Legion.

Oh and @Martyr thats pretty clever but here's House for ya- HER DE DURR I WANT NCR TO KEEP MY ASS FROM HANGING ON A CROSS FOR THREE YEARS THEN KICK EM OUT WHEN THEY BEAT THE LEGION. But this really isn't the time or the place for that.

Oh, didn't read this one:

1: They're anti-intellectual.
2: Their treatment of those who are not in peak physical shape is abhorrent.
3: Their treatment of women is abhorrent.
4: Their modus operandi is imposition of absolute cultural homogeny
5: They're nothing but glorified war dogs
6: Their leader is a megalomaniac indulging his childhood fantasy
7: Their leader is a hypocrite
8: Their leader chooses animals to be their seconds in command
9: They use cruel and unusual punishment

1. Definition:
1. having good understanding or a high mental capacity; quick to comprehend, as persons or animals: an intelligent student.
2. displaying or characterized by quickness of understanding, sound thought, or good judgment: an intelligent reply.
3. having the faculty of reasoning and understanding;
I'd say Legion is intelligent. They're from a different culture where their understanding, reasoning and judgment differs from ours.

2. Sure, but at least they're used for something.
3. Sure, but it's for a cause, in order to strengthen the Legion's army they need more children to train into legionnaires so that they can continue to expand and create peace over the lands.
4. Eh?
5. Oh? And have we seen them anywhere else but in war? How are we suppose to know if there's more to them or not if we've yet to see how they handle their cities?
6. At least thanks to this megalomaniac the wasteland will be united and finally rebuild.
7. Because of the Auto-Doc?
8. Lupa?
9. Yup, but in order to strike fear into people. If people fear them then they are less likely to go against them or their laws. How many do you think are going to steal in a Legion controlled city/town? Sure, some will, but they'll be executed in the middle of the town for all to watch, how many citizens do you think will break the laws after seeing their brutality?


Ah that's an important note, I would never want Legion in the real world.
I cast aside my personal views about morality, customs, culture and ethics when reviewing the Fallout factions.

No, I mean literally everyone.

And? There is no reason whatsoever to support Caesar unless you just like to hurt people and things. Look at Searchlight. If Caesar moves into Vegas he's going to do that over and over again in California until the entire west coast is a radioactive [censored]pile just like the Capital Wasteland. [censored] Caesar, [censored] his raider tribe. I'm more intelligent while blind drunk than he is on his best day. Nothing good can ever come of his survival beyond meeting the Courier.

So Vulpes tactics reflect the entire Legion's tactics?

Do you seriously think Vulpes came up with that [censored] by himself? Even doing it once is an act that earns an automatic death sentence for every football pad-wearing mother [censored] east of the Sierra Nevadas.

This is proven as somewhat disapproved, seeing as Lanius calls Vulpes and his tactics 'cowardly' if Im not mistaken.

No, I dont like to hurt people, but there is no a reason to do not support Caesar Legion, we can do it if we want, like other people support the Enclave or the MWBOS