So Why Can't You Support the Legion? : Fallout: New Vegas

» Sun May 23, 2010 7:03 pm

Do you seriously think Vulpes came up with that [censored] by himself?

Vulpes is commended on his brilliance in tactics.

» Sun May 23, 2010 10:21 pm

And? There is no reason whatsoever to support Caesar unless you just like to hurt people and things. Look at Searchlight. If Caesar moves into Vegas he's going to do that over and over again in California until the entire west coast is a radioactive [censored]pile just like the Capital Wasteland. [censored] Caesar, [censored] his raider tribe. I'm more intelligent while blind drunk than he is on his best day. Nothing good can ever come of his survival beyond meeting the Courier.

So you hold them accountable for things done against the NCR while at war with the NCR, this is not domestic policy, this is war, the same way the NCR slaughter women and children at Bitter Springs, war.

» Mon May 24, 2010 9:11 am

1: Cursor Lucullus just parrots something he apparently recites from memory. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1143082-pictures-of-fonv-characters-4/page__view__findpost__p__16757448 The only legionnaire I've seen exhibit any amount of independent thought was Lanius should you talk him out of it.
2: "Used", huh? So treating someone as less than human is okay?
3: See above.
4: They commit culturecide. Cultural homogeny. Stagnance.
5: If they have some culture besides war, why do they have kids on the front lines?
6: There are better ways to rebuild than by treating people like freakin' animals.
7: Yep. "Technology is bad, mm'kay? Except for me and my auto-doc."
8: Lanius. He's a Murder Death Kill machine. It's only by an incredibly silver tongue that you manage to jumpstart the higher function neurons in his head. Beyond that, I have not seen a lick of independent thought aside from Caesar himself (see #1).
9: There's a little line concerning the little Machiavellian axiom about it being better to be feared than loved that people almost always forget... it's about not being hated, above all. Cruel and unusual punishment is a poor solution for avoiding that.

» Mon May 24, 2010 6:10 am

So you hold them accountable for things done against the NCR while at war with the NCR, this is not domestic policy, this is war, the same way the NCR slaughter women and children at Bitter Springs, war.

No, Searchlight is a psychotic atrocity that despoils that land for the rest of the existence of planet earth. If you want more of those, support Caesar. Don't kid yourself about what that entails. It's scorched earth taken to its ultimate extreme. It's recreating the devestation of the great war to a place that miraculously avoided it. That in itself is what makes the entire legion inexcusable. They all have to die.

» Mon May 24, 2010 9:38 am

This is proven as somewhat disapproved, seeing as Lanius calls Vulpes and his tactics 'cowardly' if Im not mistaken.

I think he was talking about his tendency to talk his was through a fight instead of just chopping them up like he does.

» Sun May 23, 2010 10:13 pm

I think he was talking about his tendency to talk his was through a fight instead of just chopping them up like he does.

No, Lanius is referring to Vulpes's methods of Subterfuge and sneaky assaults, which Lanius apparantly sees little if any honor in.

» Mon May 24, 2010 8:54 am

No, Searchlight is a psychotic atrocity that despoils that land for the rest of the existence of planet earth. If you want more of those, support Caesar. Don't kid yourself about what that entails. It's scorched earth taken to its ultimate extreme. It's recreating the devestation of the great war to a place that miraculously avoided it. That in itself is what makes the entire legion inexcusable. They all have to die.

NCR did bad things too, Bittespring being one of them, and the worse of them, killing everyone on that city, including child and women, yes, that city is from the Great Khans, but it doesnt matter, they re still innocent, the only reason of why the Khans made an alliance with Legion is for revenge, revenge of the butchery of what the NCR did

Legion is evil, yeah, thats obvious, but the others faction arent the best option either

» Mon May 24, 2010 3:41 am

No, Searchlight is a psychotic atrocity that despoils that land for the rest of the existence of planet earth. If you want more of those, support Caesar. Don't kid yourself about what that entails. It's scorched earth taken to its ultimate extreme. It's recreating the devestation of the great war to a place that miraculously avoided it. That in itself is what makes the entire legion inexcusable. They all have to die.

This. I always opt for the Townicide option when eradicating the Cottonwood Cove incursion, because the last thing we need is more radiologically ruined land. If you play a female character, it's still deliciously karmic to Sgt. Astor.

» Mon May 24, 2010 2:51 am

No, Searchlight is a psychotic atrocity that despoils that land for the rest of the existence of planet earth. If you want more of those, support Caesar. Don't kid yourself about what that entails. It's scorched earth taken to its ultimate extreme. It's recreating the devestation of the great war to a place that miraculously avoided it. That in itself is what makes the entire legion inexcusable. They all have to die.

See what NCR did to Bitter Springs? If they take over, they will do that all over Vegas, slaughter women, children, the elderly, and the sick! It'll be like the genocide of the Great War all over again!

» Mon May 24, 2010 1:43 am

Anyone notice how posts talking about the war crimes committed by the NCR are conveniently skipped? I mean come on... Even Caesar doesn't kill off those he can find some use for. Bitter Springs was by all accounts a massacre and, if I had to hazard a guess it's probably not the first time the NCR mowed over someone they see as inferior or "in their way". But hey, they call themselves a democracy so it's all gravy. :wink_smile:

» Mon May 24, 2010 3:57 am

Oh, didn't read this one:

1: They're anti-intellectual.
2: Their treatment of those who are not in peak physical shape is abhorrent.
3: Their treatment of women is abhorrent.
4: Their modus operandi is imposition of absolute cultural homogeny
5: They're nothing but glorified war dogs
6: Their leader is a megalomaniac indulging his childhood fantasy
7: Their leader is a hypocrite
8: Their leader chooses animals to be their seconds in command
9: They use cruel and unusual punishment

1. Definition:
1. having good understanding or a high mental capacity; quick to comprehend, as persons or animals: an intelligent student.
2. displaying or characterized by quickness of understanding, sound thought, or good judgment: an intelligent reply.
3. having the faculty of reasoning and understanding;
I'd say Legion is intelligent. They're from a different culture where their understanding, reasoning and judgment differs from ours.

2. Sure, but at least they're used for something.
3. Sure, but it's for a cause, in order to strengthen the Legion's army they need more children to train into legionnaires so that they can continue to expand and create peace over the lands.
4. Eh?
5. Oh? And have we seen them anywhere else but in war? How are we suppose to know if there's more to them or not if we've yet to see how they handle their cities?
6. At least thanks to this megalomaniac the wasteland will be united and finally rebuild.
7. Because of the Auto-Doc?
8. Lupa?
9. Yup, but in order to strike fear into people. If people fear them then they are less likely to go against them or their laws. How many do you think are going to steal in a Legion controlled city/town? Sure, some will, but they'll be executed in the middle of the town for all to watch, how many citizens do you think will break the laws after seeing their brutality?

4. He means that the Legion's method of running things is to enforce complete homogeny: essentially make everyone exactly like them. Which is wrong, of course. People have identities, and these identities are not meant to be crushed in favor of what a megalomaniac claims is a good cause. The Legion considers life, the most sacred thing of all, worthless. Every recruit and slave has a worthless existence. How you can accept that as correct, I don't think I'll ever understand.
8. He is calling Lanius an animal, which he is. He killed that trader's brahmin because it was in his way. This savage truly has no regard for human life, the filthiest savage of them all.
For all your other points, I only say that you seem to be a very "the end justifies the means" person. In some cases that may be true, but definitely not this time. It is not right at all to unify the wasteland if these are the costs. What is the purpose of living on, carrying on as a species when all you're reduced to is an object, a tool for your dictators?

» Mon May 24, 2010 4:51 am

Anyone notice how posts talking about the war crimes committed by the NCR are conveniently skipped?

What I pointed out War Crimes, what I pointed out. (NCR allowing a Slaver Hall right outside it's city, yet saying 'SLAVERY IS BAD MKAY'. Then let's not forget the 'Let's hire a mobster family to hire a merc company to strong arm Vault City' move.)

» Mon May 24, 2010 8:03 am

See what NCR did to Bitter Springs? If they take over, they will do that all over Vegas, slaughter women, children, the elderly, and the sick! It'll be like the genocide of the Great War all over again!

Who gives a [censored] about the NCR? Mr. House is the only one of the faction choices who doesn't ask you to kill anybody, except the Brotherhood of Steel, who have been reduced to a raider organization with nice toys.

» Mon May 24, 2010 8:53 am

What I pointed out War Crimes, what I pointed out. (NCR allowing a Slaver Hall right outside it's city, yet saying 'SLAVERY IS BAD MKAY'. Then let's not forget the 'Let's hire a mobster family to hire a merc company to strong arm Vault City' move.)

Oh, I'm not talking about you. I'm just pointing out how those on the NCR side of the debate will "accidentally" miss posts pointing out the evils the NCR has both committed and allowed to exist.

» Sun May 23, 2010 6:18 pm

No, Lanius is referring to Vulpes's methods of Subterfuge and sneaky assaults, which Lanius apparantly sees little if any honor in.

Maybe, I always assumed he meant the psychological aspect of his tactics because after you talk him down he says "I wish that Vulpes could have been here on this day, something tells me your strengh with words would have proved greater than his own" or something to that effect.

» Mon May 24, 2010 9:39 am

Oh, I'm not talking about you. I'm just pointing out how those on the NCR side of the debate will "accidentally" miss posts pointing out the evils the NCR has both committed and allowed to exist.

Well, I dont like sounding anti-anybody. I'm just pointing things out to add a neutral and valid point.

» Mon May 24, 2010 8:34 am

Also, if Siri is anything to go by, http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8120/yououghttobecareful.jpg

EDIT: Arg, censored. It's the R-word, involving a physical violation of another.

» Mon May 24, 2010 3:01 am

What I pointed out War Crimes, what I pointed out. (NCR allowing a Slaver Hall right outside it's city, yet saying 'SLAVERY IS BAD MKAY'. Then let's not forget the 'Let's hire a mobster family to hire a merc company to strong arm Vault City' move.)

1. Yes they allowed a slaver hall in the NCR back in Fallout 2
2.They hired mobster, those mobster hired raiders to assault Vault City and force them to anex with the NCR
3. Bitterspring, just Bitterspring

» Sun May 23, 2010 8:39 pm

@Augustus really dude, your going to try to compare the Legions crimes with the crimesof the NCR? Bitter Springs was a massive screw up of communication pure and simple, sure they may have done a lot of wrong but it pales in comparison to what the Legion has done and wants to do.

» Mon May 24, 2010 1:27 am

I think Caesar and Kimball, Lanius and OIiver should have a coffee date together and try to work out their differences. After an hour, The NCR and Legion will form a peace treaty and form a new coalition government of the Legion and NCR. NCR stops being land-hungry parasites, and the Legion becomes nicer to people and allows women to be considered people. It all works out in the end!

And then a securitron army just blows them all away!

» Mon May 24, 2010 4:23 am

3. Bitterspring, just Bitterspring

This is a slippery slope. On one hand, we can say NCR was did this by accident. On the other hand, we could say NCR troopers should have had the mental stoppage to cease far once they saw those women and children in the the valley.

@Apex- He isn't trying to whitewash the Legion, what he's saying is NCR supporters shouldn't be so ready to play high and mighty, given NCR's past misdeeds.

» Mon May 24, 2010 12:47 am

And then a securitron army just blows them all away!

Dope as hell, son. Why nobody wants to send in robots to die instead of people in the Mojave conflict is beyond me.

» Sun May 23, 2010 6:18 pm

Hey, I think the NCR is broken too. If anything, after giving the results of the Indy ending some thinking, I'm starting to lean pro-House (which should probably elate Martyr to no end

). It leaves the Mojave in a better position overall, gives the Legion a wound it won't soon forget, and bloodies the NCR's nose and makes them think long and hard about their jingoistic imperialism.

» Sun May 23, 2010 8:53 pm

Dope as hell, son. Why nobody wants to send in robots to die instead of people in the Mojave conflict is beyond me.

Gee, sure is great for me to be a House supporter :disguise:

» Sun May 23, 2010 7:32 pm

The only fair option here is House, who dont want all of them dead, just out of the Strip