Because compass never exist in skyrim, its a tool for players to get around easier. For map, well to be more realistic, you will need a map (either giving to you or explore yourself) i didnt see any FoW on the main map. For my taste, i had the compass disabled and refuse the map. I drew my own map and work my way outward, least i have roads and other useful sites and infos.

Meh, it's another of those "more awesome than thou" remarks you get from the same people who complain about dumbing down, casual gamers and so on.

In order to find something in the cave, you have to find the cave first.

I use a mod that removes POI icons and enemy dots from the compass, it makes exploring soooooo much better as I don't magicaly know where nearby things are, I have to actualy LOOK at my surroundings to find places. Now, instead of: "Oh, the compass says theres a ruin to my left" I actualy have to SEE the ruin, and then I go take a closer look.

I'll admit, i never liked the map marker... i actually enjoyed having to find things my self in Morrowind. However, i do know that since Morrowind TES has become mainstream and with Skyrims success it has pulled in the masses of which i'm sure the majority would hate not having a map marker.

While i would prefer not to have one i don't mind it telling me where to go, what i do mind though is when you get a quest to find a certain item and now the marker will not just tell you where to go.. but actually tell you the exact chest/container the item is located in. That is too much in my opinion. A simple marker on where to go and then leave me to find said items would be fine.

Another thing i dislike is the radar we have, exploration is one of the best things about TES in my opinion, what sort of ruins it for me is i can be out exploring and on my screen i might only see a few trees and a river perhaps. Yet, my radar(compass) clearly shows me that just over behind that tree is a fort i have not yet discovered.

A good way to solve the problem of voiced games and the amount of work required to fill in the needed immersion of directions, would be for the game to generate a piece of paper with a static picture of the map taken and a circle drawn on an area the quest is pointing to.

Of course that begs the question, why didn't the character just tell you in the first place?

But is it better than a GPS system? most likely.

Definitely nothing like riddles, euphemism or wrong directions though, the majority of the population would die of brain rot. :toughninja:

Morrowind was fine without the magical compass showing exactly where to go.

Everything since then = Handholding for CoD kids.

I don't understand how the compass is supposedly hand-holding, but I do occasionally find it a bit too easy just to go to the map marker location and fast travel. I know it's my fault that I don't resist the temptation, but I can understand where people's concerns come from. It would be nice to actually be forced to figure out the location for the next part of a quest, certainly from time to time.

EDIT: Is it possible to turn off the map markers, but not the compass?

Except when you had to find Urshilaku Burial Caverns.

I had to write it.

Quest markers are handholding they show path to actual target or exact position, oh well there even pointers over heads of quest target.
Less explore of hidden stashes and places, less detailed quest descriptions, less mystery and more feel of rails.
Good there is option thats disable markers, bad there is no detailed quest description and support of direction can be done better, will be nice if quest have more detailed descriptions and markers didn't show always exact position of target but can help find area where is target stay.
Another good thing there is clairvoyance spell I think about mod thats will add Fortune Tellers thats will use divination and grant clairvoyance spell effect as blessing for certain cost as well such Fortune Tellers can sold scrolls of Divination witch spell effect and all chose of Birthsigns power thats will be differ from Guardian Doom Stones and more classical.

@OP

Sorry I was an infantryman and spent a lot of time in the bush. When you're in close country, you cant figure out jack [censored], especially when it's dark. Open country? Sure okay, lets talk about that.

I spent a Lot of time doing both day and night navigation, aswell as training people to do navigation. I would say that I am, in fact, better trained than people would have been in those days. It takes a Lot of careful calculation to figure out how to get from one point to another using a compas and a map. You dont just see a dot to follow in the distance.

You CAN figure out which way is north from the stars, but again, that means jackall unless you know where you are on the ground. Looking at terrain is much different than looking at a street sign. Have you ever heard of a resection? Its easy, but not without a compas and a protracter, aswell as a very accurate map. Map to ground with the maps used in those days would be almost impossible.

Im sorry but what you are saying, is very, very unaccurate.

If you like the quest markers: Leave them on.

If you don't like the quest markers: Stop tracking the quest.

As for the compass itself, I really see no reason why people don't like it. Is it because it will show you the direction of an enemy? They only pop-up when they are really close, and it could be assumed that you can "hear" the enemy and pin-point their direction. Is it because you think that in the setting of the game, compasses should not exist? Because by that logic, you should be upset that there's magic and monsters.

I have nothing against the way Morrowind did it, except for the fact that because of typos or small changes in things, the directions NPCs would give you to landmarks and such would be wrong. Spending 6 hours on a quest looking for a specific landmark because the NPC told you to go East instead of West is bloody irritating.

Compasses and maps themselves aren't handholding. Quest markers and no way to complete quests without them are.

Here's a wall of text I wrote from an earlier thread:

The Problem.
The problem, as stated before, is that the system relies purely on quest arrows as directions.
Unlike previous games, NPCs barely give you any directions at all, nor do they say they “marked the location on your map”. Even though no directions are given on most quests, your journal and map are updated with the location of the objective regardless. This all creates a very unrealistic and illogical experience.

Some might say “Well why don't you just turn your quest markers off?”. I wish it were this simple my friends.
If you decide to do this, good luck, you'll likely not find the location you're supposed to get the item from or meet the NPC at.
I'll give you an example:
There's a certain Redguard in Whiterun that asks you to retrieve a sword. The only thing he mentions in his dialog that is even remotely related to the location of this item is “I've tracked the bandit's hideout.” (or something similar). However, this good man does not mention where this hideout is anywhere, when the conversation is over its location is simple added to your map and journal.
Another example, one of the many radiant quests:
A courier passes, he hands you a note from “a friend”. In the note your “friend” advises you to check out location [X]. However no whereabouts of location [X] are stated in the note. Yet your magical journal immediately knows where it is if you simply follow the quest marker.

Why did Bethesda take this route?
This is something I have a hard time figuring out. The importance of quests in RPGs is undeniable, yet Bethesda seems to take a step down in how well quests are handled.
The most logical reason to me is the voice acting. Voice acting, while an awesome development, makes for less available dialog.
Yet, in Oblivion, it seems quest directions are handled the same, perhaps even slightly better than in Skyrim. Don't quote me on this, but I feel that most of Oblivion's quests had a very simple but effective approach to handle this that is a lot less illogical than Skyrim's method.
What I remember from Oblivion is that the questgiver often gave you a very simple location, yet it was enough to find your way around. For instance “[X] can be found southwest of [X] but before [Z].”.
Another way Oblivion handled this was the NPCs simply saying they marked the location on your map, it seems this is also missing in Skyrim. (It probably has something to do with the magical 3D map.)
To me this seems stagnant, at the very least, after 5 years of technological evolution and a bigger budget than Oblivion.

A possible solution.
It seems to me that Bethesda needs to know their priorities. However if this subject weighs as heavily as I feel it does has yet to be seen – that's what the poll is for.
It's undeniable that Bethesda had a large budget for Skyrim, considering their previous (well earnt) successes in the video game industry. Due to this it's very odd that they seem to have regressed in the questing department, while this is a very large portion of RPGs.
Would it really be too much to ask to have one or two sentances about the location of the quest objective? Especially when the quest is written (my second example; the “Note from a friend”.), it's not all that hard to add a quick description for these locations as a major game developer.
Bethesda has added quite a few extras to Skyrim, for instance the 3d map and the rotation of 3d objects. But why has one of the cornerstones of RPG games suffered and regressed in comparison to a 5 year old games from the same series?

I like the Map, I like the Compass, I dislike the Markers, though. I would not object, if the Marker merely indicated the Dungeon/City where you have to go, but not the Item itself, that you have to find.

Also I would like to be able to have Markers active on the Map, but not on the Compass, same for the location Markings. They should not clutter my Compass. All I want to see there is the directions and my personal Marker. I also don't like that my charater can seemingly sense dungeons from 500m afar...

Meh, it's another of those "can't be bothered because I'm too hip" remarks you get from the same people who complain about entitlement, capitolism, and those who actually EARN what they recieve.

I'd call you hipster trash, but that'd probably come across as a compliment.

The compass and map in and of themselves isn't the handholding features, though they are admittedly immersion breaking. And yes, I admit that for my first play through I've been using them, and the fast travel. What's really handholding is, like others have said, that magic upside down triangle finger of Talos which points to the doors you need to go through, the mobs you need to kill, or the chests you need to open. The map and compass, though a stretch, CAN be justified (IE direction sense, prior knowledge, and being given directions metaphysically). What can't be justified is knowing the bathroom in the cave complex you just entered is down the hallway, 17th door on the left.

I am perfectly able to find where I am supposed to go with no map marker by simply opening up the quest journal, selecting the quest and pressing the "SHOW LOCATION ON MAP" button. It will open the map, and center on the objective without a marker. I also have not gotten ANY quests, none, nada, zip, where the NPC didn't mention a NAME or a LOCATION in the dialogue from obtaining the quest; it just isn't written in the journal itself. It's amusing how many people complain about hand-holding, and then say something that shows others that they truly need their hands held.

Except the name of the place is in the journal, so you can look it up on the map.

http://www.anjelsyndicate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/daggerfall-town-map-and-key.jpg

Actually not quite - only when they have 'aggroed' and are looking for a fight/you.

You can be 6" behind someone and if they don't know you're there, they're not on the compass either.

Oh really? Then go check out the quest I give as an example in my post.

My character takes exception to being called an idiot thankyou.

I have the compass turned off in the ini file where bethesda thoughtfully put in a setting to disable the whole thing. It's turned off in my game because I object to my view being spoiled by it and to get rid of icons letting me know in advance whats over the next hill. I check the map if I get lost on my way to the next quest which happens frequently. Honestly though with no enemy radar. The number of times i've jumped because I thought I was alone either in the wilderness or a dungeon.

However I believe that questmarkers are a necessity when you have no information given to you in the game where anything is. If a person wants to have a compass on their screen with markers and enemy radar it is their choice and I don't think they're idiots for doing so.

I have. Multiple times. Because it's a MISC quest, and the location can change every time it's given out. They always tell you the dungeon they lost their items in if you actually pay attention to them when they speak to you.

Well actually Skyrim use simplified version of Daggerfall fast travel thats was first used in Oblivion, Daggerfall has FT because have great distance between places, both Skyrim and Oblivion doesn't have such sizes.

- There is no time consequences in Skyrim, in Daggerfall even MQ have time limits, besides of this all diseases progress overtime in Daggerfall while in Skyrim only Sanguinare Vampiris have such progression, oh well Skyrim has similar to Daggerfall radiant quest why not add time consequences for them?

- FT is free in Skyrim, Daggerfall have cost for FT thats was small but depend on distance of traveling, think about thats money was used for cost of inn service, giving few coins for direction advice during travel, stolen by thieves and etc.

- There only one alternative to FT in Skyrim at last thanks for carriages thats give transport option what was forgotten in Oblivion, but how about mark&recall, Travelers Guild service, using of Ships?

The only issue I have with the map is the clouds that cover the visibility of all the locations.

The 3D rotating Google Earth map doesn't belong in the world of Horses and arrows and swords. PERIOD. That is why I don't like it. It should have been a 2D map that looks similar to the premium map that came with the game.

I have no problem with a N S E W compas. I have a problem when you add GPS to it and when you have pointers that lead you by the hand and when there are no directions to speak of so that you are forced to use it. THAT is hand holding. PERIOD.