I know this question has probably been asked well over a million times, but I'm just curious. Fallout 3 would have been 100% perfect IMO if you would've been able to, just look at FNV,, but in Fallout 3 you can never fully-side with the Enclave, yes you can inject Project Purity with the Modded FEV, and blow up the Citadel, but you're still hostile with the Enclave.

Thanks.

EDIT: I meant side with, of course.

Nope, the enclave arn't hostile to you after that, I think.

I'm pretty sure they're still hostile, I've played through Fallout 3 plenty of times and I never remember the Enclave being friendly if you help them, it's a possibility though.

Really?

As for you question, mods fix everything!

Nah but seriously, it kinda bugged me at first but the BoS showed me the light... :bowdown:

I think that the Enclave were so different, that there would have to be a new story altogether at the beginning of Broken Steel.

Since the game originally ended with you dying when you turned on project purity.

We'll never know why Bethesda decided to force the played to side with the BoS (alright thats a bit of an exaggeration). The lack of the option to join the Enclave was one of worst flaws of Fallout 3 in my opinon. Thank Jeebus for mods.

Because Bethesda made Fallout 3 good vs evil and they wanted us to play good. So they made Enclave unjoinable and forced us to join the Brotherhood.

It is stupid that we are asked to help the Enclave only for them to keep attacking. Augustus Autumn controls the Enclave after Eden. So if we are the ones that take out Eden then why does Augustus Autumn keep attackin? Its just poor writing.

Well, since Fallout 2 viewed the Enclave as super insanely evil, Bethesda was like, "Ok we're new at this, so let's just repeat everything from the last two games." But ObsidIan came to their senses and said, "Look, here's a new choice. Plus no BoS to order you around. It's a wonderful wasteland!"

Autumn was still loyal to Eden at the end of Fallout 3. You have to convince him to abandon his President.

Why would they want you? You are part of teh impurity they are trying to drive out

Then what was with the fighting between Eden and Autumn while at the Rock? Just when I think things are going ok with the Enclave they start fighting one another and shooting at me.

What I got from it was that Autumn did not want to go along with Eden's half baked plan.

All I know is that Autumn still retained loyalty to Eden. When you try to convince him to just leave the Purifer Room, you must convince him that following Eden is the "wrong way" and he retorts with "The Chain of Command must be upheld".

Besides, I don't think Autumn's plan was all that different from Eden's. He wanted to use the purifer to get people to trust the Enclave, and then have them comply to genetic screenings, which would have ended badly for the wastelanders anyway.

If he's still loyal then what was with the fighting? Is it possible that his talking about being loyal to Eden after Eden was blown up was just a mistake be the devs?

If not then again what was with the fight?

I understand Autumn wanting to use the purifier to get people to like the Enclave and he still was not to happy about "impure" people he did not want to out right kill every none Enclave.

Eden gets Destroyed, who replaces him? Would it not be Autumn, yeah he is apart of the military and can't be president but if a computer can why not him?

My guess is that Autumn is sort of a "General Patton" figure. In other words he went off tangent and started to countermand orders, but didn't go "full rebel". I ascribe the fighting to Eden "disciplining" his soldiers and reminding them who is in charge. Autumn then leaves for the purifier but apparently had every intention of coming back to Eden, who was his President. Which is where the "Chain of Command" quote comes in. The whole mess is a bit confusing and I think part of it was Bethesda just trying to give a complex plot to the Enclave rather than just going with the "Richardson Plan". I was also talking about the "Chain of Command" quote happening when Eden is still alive (i.e. not blown up").



My theory has always been that Eden just wanted to outright exterminate the wastelanders, while Autumn was more like "Hold on! Lets just make sure first!"



Civilian Control of the Military is a very very important part of United States protocol. Eden was President because he was part of COG and a cabinet member of Richardson's. Unless Autumn resigned his command, he would not be eligible for the presidency. So I have no real idea who took command of the Enclave following Eden's destruction. Thats a good question but the answer may lie within the mysterious "Enclave High Command" that is alluded to in Broken Steel.

Funny way to "discipline" his troops. Autumn did go full rebel. I don't remember fully what he said but he came on the speakers at the Rock and said something to piss Eden off.




I agree



I am still in the air about that. I don't think Eden was apart of Richardson's Cabinet. The COG came in to effect in 1962-3 right? I think you told me that. Good chance it did not happen do to the timeline split. Cuban Missile Crisis caused it. Cold War in the Fallout Universe was very different.

Hey, the Enclave is a tight fisted organization. There is no room for attacking a prisoner the President has given clearance to.

Autumn didn't really tell Eden to "Piss off" though, he was more gentle than that. He just was angry with Eden for letting his prisoner (the LW) go. I really don't understand the fighting in Raven Rock really well, honestly it seemed to me that Bethesda was just trying to make the traveling through Raven Rock "interesting" and to give players a chance to loot dead Enclave.

I still go by Autumn's "COC" quote though. The fact that you have to speech challenge him to leave Eden tells me something.






Except that Eden mentions that "this facility (meaning Raven Rock and himself) was designed for Continuty of Government (COG)". Eden also says he was an "advisor" to Richarson, which doesn't necessarily mean he was on his cabinet, but it does mean that he had contact with the former President and that Richardson probably affirmed his role in COG.

Well the hole point to the Rock is for Eden to ask the player to be Good or Evil. We are asked to help with the stupid plan or we can tell him no. Then we can make him blow up. I was going under the impression Autumn though to himself "Eden really is crazy! He wants to go through with this dumb plan." So he rebelled





From my understanding, was that Eden studied the Enclave and Richardson. Eden is a ZAX computer and they all developed personallities. His data base was full of American history. Its possible he had contact with the Oil Rig but the Rig did not have contact with Eden.

Enclave knowing about the Rock and everything it contains along with the Super Wonder weapons and Optimus Prime up till the Events of Fallout 2 yet did nothing with them is a huge plot hole. If the Oil Rig did not know about it or thought it was destroyed it would make some sense that they igored it till the Rig went Boom. If they trully knew it was there then they could have taken back America within the first 100 years easy with good old plasma and Optimus Prime and their land crawler.

Still though, it is apparent that he hasn't totally abandoned Eden. He still recognizes Eden as President and still supports his leadership. Prehaps he realized Eden's role in COG and simply felt that his idea was better in this case (it would not be the first time a general of the U.S. has gone a bit AWOL).



The impression I got from Eden was that he was in contact with Richardson.



Well, the Enclave had no reason to believe in Fallout 2 that their plan to wipe the world clean would fail. If their Curling Virus was deployed then they would have had no need to do anything really in terms of "fighting", it was just sit back and relax time. So going to the east wasn't really a primary objective if the wastelanders would have been taken care of anyway.

When the Rig did go boom, the higher ups who would have known about Raven Rock and Eden were killed. So until Eden contacted them, the survivors wouldn't have known about Raven Rock most likely.

It would not be the first time an American General Rebelled. Maybe Autumn just feels remorse for what he did and still sees Eden as president even though its dead. Also we can't know for sure the COG is the sameone that came out in the 1960s but then again I could just be splitting hairs there.



I don't remember every thing said from Eden, so I do trust what others including you, about the Enclave in Fallout 3, at least those like you that are dedicated fans of them. I go to wiki and all I can find was he studied Richardson. Try as I might I can't recall Eden saying he talked/knew Richardson. Maybe I should re-install Fallout 3 and make notes.



They sure did sit back for along time. 2077 till 2241. 164 years. They came up with the plan for Fallout 2 only after along time of building their numbers. If they had the plan from day one Oct 23, 2077 then they could have done it at any time. If they knew about Raven Rock they could have taken back America long before 2241 maybe before 2164 but they did not. Makes no sense, none at all. If you are going to take back America and make it like it was then would it not be easier to do it when the population of mutants and impure humans is very low and not in the hundreds of thousands? Perfect time to take back America would have been within the first 50 years of the Great War. Very little people and the mutant animals had not exploded in humbers.

"The Earth was nearly wiped clean of life." "A quiet darkness fell across the planet lasting many years."

Fallout 2 it makes sense. They were a small group and needed time to make more Enclave babies and they were alone on the Rig and Navarro. Fallout 3 just messes that all to hell.

I have never seen the phrase Continuity of Government referencing anything other than the official COG plans. So until its offically stated as otherwise, I'm going to continue to assume (and hopefully not wrongly ) that they are the same plans. If anything I think, given the "Red Scare" extremism that had a chance to develop and flourish in the Fallout universe, the COG plans would give more power to the President and allow for "special circumstances" such as Eden (just speculation though).




It was my impression though that the Enclave didn't venture forth from the Oil Rig because they were cautious about the conditions outside, besides, they had no reason to believe that anyone would be able to match their tech and military might when they came out, they probably assumed that the U.S. was wiped clean of life like you said, and so they didn't expect any resistance. When they finally did decide to venture forth, they discovered the place crawling with mutants which is where the Curling 13 virus plan came into effect.

I don't think the Enclave were expecting anyone but the Vault dwellers to surive the great war in any numbers, and I certainly don't think they expected mutants.

I agree thats what the Enclave did in Fallout 2. That was their mindset but Fallout 3 changes this. Fallout 2 they seemed happy to sit back and study the vaults and build up their numbers. They noticed America was becoming re-populated so they came up the the virus and they needed a vaccine.

Fallout 3 tells us that they had the ability to take back America as easy as apple pie, what with all their wonder weapons and their ability to multiply like rats. Enclave had the Rock and all this time they knew about it, I am sure they would have discovered that the population of mutants and people (to the mutant) coming back in large numbers long before events of Fallout 2. Fallout 3 makes them seem like their Number one goal was to rebuild America and take back DC. Yet Fallout 2 they were just happy running their own little America on the Rig and that was because the Rig was all they had and they did not have large numbers.

Thats true I guess. It really comes down then to the "Where the heck did the Enclave get their numbers from in Fallout 3" question.

Still though, I think that if they had the opportunity to use the virus to kill off everyone, they didn't see the need in going in the field and simply shooting things up.

Thing is they did not have to use the Virus or Go in a shoot them up because the Great War killed everyone for them. They could have taken back DC after the first 20 years or so. Taken back America, used a lot of Gecks and so on. If anyone or anything did give them trouble, their wonder weapons and tech would have stopped them. Their tech all but for their power armour is more advanced in Fallout 3, so it would have all that more easy.

It does come down to where did they get their numbers. Their small numbers, isolation kept them from settling America till Fallout 2. Fallout 3 numbers does not seem like a problem and they have alot of tech and they are more crazy about rebuilding America.

On the OP's original question, the answer is simply what has been said: Bethesda got lazy.


For PC users I am currently the one fixing this with http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12937, but unfortunately my conscription to military service has hampered my modding until summer (not that the mod doesn't work, try it out! Allows you to join the Enclave and establish Enclave outposts in some settlements and Pentagon. Just slight knowledge with console commands required to get past most serious bugs, but a walkthrough is included)

If you could side with the Enclave, the Capital Wasteland would be wayyyyy different. They would have started a genocide campaign against all the local people, mutated creatures, and super mutants.