Nothing more than speculation. And I've heard talk of devs using such phrases going along the lines of "everthing should be a metaphor" and similar things like that.

Basically designed the game in a fashion that would boost sales rather than be lore correct. I'd say more, but many more knowledgeable people have said plenty.

Then they could have picked a different game engine, or invested some time to make a low-fps-killing alternative to how trees could be rendered. Heck, Shadow of the Colossus could render stuff better and at a greater frame-rate that Oblivion's engine could if it attempted the same feat. And SoC was for the PS2's hardware!

If the coding is the problem, then do it better. Beth didn't have to stick with Gamebryo. MW is the first time they used it. They could have said: "screw it, we can't even prevent the rain from going through roofs in exteriors" and picked something else.

I would like to point out that the speed-tree sets for Jungle trees are roughly the same polygons as the ones used in Oblivion. At the very least, the a tree-replacer using jungle trees would not be that difficult. But you can't reach the proper density without issues on the testing hardware back then. There's no way Bethesda could have taken the time to write their own engine or re-write the Gamebryo one (assuming they get the full source with good documentation) and still released Oblivion in any decent time.


Believe it or not, Gamebryo does have its advantages. I suspect the licensing was ideal for Beth's purposes. SoC used a lot of custom tricks and work arounds to create a beautiful game, but these aren't always practical for larger open-world games, especially ones that support true HDR lighting. Now, these tricks can likely be applied to Oblivion to an extent, but still...

Perhaps reality changes, it was a jungle but then reality changed so now it isn't.

Perhaps people used the word "jungle" in a metaphoric sense, for example: "The political situation in cyrodill is becoming worse" "Right, but cyrodill has always been a jungle", but by some mystifying reason the context has always been missed.

Another possibility is that the jungle was burned down to make room for farmland and a big forest to secure wood supply for the empire (and hunting grounds). If this happened just some years before the game (oblivion), it also explains why there is so few people in cyrodill compared to morrowind, because jungles cant supply enough food to a big population.

Of course the mentioned arguments disregard the real cause, which are related to the developers and game designers etc.

That's a pretty lame jungle. And Oblivion makes a "political jungle" impossible (there is no government), while creating two new books which state Cyrodiil is a jungle. It was a world design path which was unexplored ingame, because not all developers agree with the same concept of Tamriel period and if they cannot agree, neither must I.

Well, there is a government? "The imperial council" or what is called, the emperor and surely there are people struggling for power, even in a monarchy, but my comment was really meant as a joke, and I agree it would make a quite lame jungle with politicians as monkeys.

Well, the Imga actually made fine politicians.

The "impossible government" comment was due to Oblivion's near total lack of government, that was a joke too.

Well, look on the bright side of things: maybe it isn't a jungle, but at least it isn't a swamp.

I would prefer a swamp over what it has become in OB.

Why was that a joke, its the truth, you can't see any of the political workings of the Empire despite being in its capital - not to mention the White-Gold Tower being lame in general, no administration offices or offices in general, a meager library, devoid of any sort of imperial palace, apart from its empty council chambers its absolutely worthless as a capitol building or imperial residence.

Heh. Might be better to treat it as a movie set.

I should have said this:

Afterall, we have Ocato and the Imperial City loan chick and the counts and the watch captain. I can't forget them.

What farms? Hardly any of the land is used for agriculture. As a matter of fact, where the hell do they get their food from?

From what I've seen in-game... The Tamika vineyards, Applewatch, Weye, and the Odiil Farm

My personal opinion is that it really isn't a lore thing more just a natural change. I mean when you look at a world, climates and regions do shift sometimes from one thing to another. Certain species die out and others come in that find the changes more habitable than the last and they bring with them seeds and different things that flourish in the ecosystem changes.

The cycle of life.

Not likely, considering I harvest all of it to use in alchemy. :hehe:

But, yeah, that is something very odd. I'm playing through Titan Quest, and they set up farm fields -- lots of them -- on the outskirts of cities, along with other agriculture equipment. There's even a water-lift in one of the oases in Egypt. It's little touches like that that make the world believable.

In Cyrodiil's case, the cycle of life occured in less than a second when a developer said "I shall be Talos and I shall transform Cyrodiil to have forests, green grass and medieval europe climates."

could it be that they used jungle as a metaphor? I know thats been said before but instead politically and otherwise it was a jungle of people and cultures and creeds and views and all sorts of stuff?

No.

No. In Morrowind, Savants describe Cyrodiil as a province filled with vast jungles and rainforests. In the first edition of the Pocket Guide :


But then, Oblivion's explanation for the turning tide is that Tiber Septim drank too much Powerthirst and eradicated the jungle.

Todd is/was a writer?


I liked SI I dont know much about the lore but I do like the sheogorath origin and the new guy whos name I cant spell.

But if they couldnt make it a jungle why not choocse another location untill they could, seems like a logical choice.
And \\I think its kinda bad if they say something and then change it with magic if they se fit, it shows that they dont give a [censored] about lore, which is never good.

Not to my knowledge. He did the write the MW Imperial Legion quests (where you murder your CO at the end for some reason.)

Why is Ireland no longer a forest.

Ha! Exactly!

because the snakes took off with it?