Why did Azura care

Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:50 pm

Just to add to the recent surge of Morrowind-lore related threads. Regarding the curse of the Chimer, the Tribunal and the Heart - why did Azura care anyway? Daedra are unconcerned with mortal things, with nothing invested in it. What has the use or abuse of Lorkhan's heart got anything to do with her.

Or is it just because she can?
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Kim Bradley
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:49 pm

Azura is extremely childish. She did it to make a point that she didn't want it to happen. Her lack-of-maturity is why she is my least-respected daedric prince (right below Sheogorath).
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Emily Shackleton
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:29 am

Why did she care? Well, Melphala, Boethia(h), and Azura did put effort into the whole Chimer thing. Also, it's nice when you have a whole nation that worships you. Now, when you combine the extreme narcissism and extreme envy from her, this sets up a recipe for her to turn an entire nation of golden elves that used to worship her into ghoulish ash elves who now follow the Tribunal.

In other words, I doubt she turned the Chimer into Dunmer just because the Tribunal murdered Nerevar, but because they used the Heart of Shor to throw her into the background. Remember, the Tribunal (forgot which one specifically) told their people they became gods themselves to watch over them benevolently, instead of the mixed results the princes provide. She became very pissy, because she's extremely petty, and turned the Chimer into Dunmer. But, Sotha Sil gave her the finger and told the dunmer their new form is awesome (the opposite reaction she wanted).
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Amiee Kent
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:02 pm

I think it's worth pointing out that the 36 Lessons suggest that it was the actions of the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon-thirty-one. Perhaps the popular accounts exaggerate Azura's role.
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Haley Cooper
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:27 am

Regardless of why the Chimer became Dunmer, Azura revealed herself to them and the Tribunal and cursed them, if only in a pissed off verbal rant. She still cared enough to do that, which is a rare occasion for a Daedra Prince.

My thought is that Azura is representative of destiny and half-formed thought. She is the embodiment of destiny, therefore the destinies she develops are the most important to her. As such, she is intimately connected to mortals, who, as changing beings, are the only creatures affected by those things (Daedra are unchanging and immortal, and so could be considered to have no concept of destiny, which requires a change). When the Chimer-to-be-Dunmer left Summerset under Veloth, they collectively had the greatest hope of change (and, therefore, destiny) of any people on Nirn. Being drawn to them, Azura effectively became one of their patrons, and crafted a destiny for them. She invested so much energy in them, that when the Tribunal moved to take them away from her through attaining divinity, she reacted from frustration at what she believed to be a diversion from her plan.

If she was responsible for the changing of Chimer to Dunmer, she may have also attempted to awe some of the Dunmer, so as to limit her loss.

..Of course, I could be completely and utterly wrong.
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FITTAS
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:40 pm

She is the prince of Dusk and Dawn, which are attributed as times of change. What you said, Bigsmoke86, sounds pretty sound.

However, she is also very much a [censored], and probably one of the most diabolical of the princes. Reason being she gives people a false sense of security and care by looking both motherly and a lover, and treating her followers "well," which is total BS. This is a reason why I also like the Elder Scrolls book, as it shows she at first looks to be benevolent, but will break deals if she finds a mortal fun (ala Sul). And even when Sul left her realm, she still haunted him with visions.
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Cesar Gomez
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:24 am

I don't believe Azura cursed the Dunmer, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Battle_of_Red_Mountain seems to suggest that it was the Tribunal, not Azura, that caused it. After all, while Azura has been attributed to the creation of the Khajiit from Bosmer, I'm a bit skeptical to believe that she could somehow alter an entire race at once, whereas the Heart of Lorkhan did have the power to do so.

And yes, I know that the text I linked is Vivec's account, but given it doesn't explicitly state that Vivec didn't kill Nerevar, I think it's reliable enough.

Edit: And on a final note, I don't think Azura is as bad as some people say. Between Vivec's desperation to stop Dagoth Ur and Almalexia's degrading sanity, all that was needed was a catalyst to make everything fall into place.
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:10 am

CP, Eh, I still think she did it. In that passage where she says I didn't do this, you did, sounds almost akin to a parent saying to their child "You butt being smacked hard is completely your fault"...well that may be not the best example, but I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
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krystal sowten
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:04 pm

CP, Eh, I still think she did it. In that passage where she says I didn't do this, you did, sounds almost akin to a parent saying to their child "You butt being smacked hard is completely your fault"...well that may be not the best example, but I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

I understand what you mean. Not that I'm personally convinced it was the case, but it works fine.
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Emma louise Wendelk
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 pm

But that's just me. Personally, I hate Azura. Nothing more than a [censored]y seductress, complete with being topless, among other qualities.
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Dalley hussain
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:27 pm

mmm, seduction.
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Julie Serebrekoff
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:56 am

mmm, seduction.


Not where Major Raikov is concerned, as is proven by his total immunity to playboy magazines in Metal Gear Solid 3.
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.X chantelle .x Smith
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:26 am

Not where Major Raikov is concerned, as is proven by his total immunity to playboy magazines in Metal Gear Solid 3.

I shot him...repeated. Then I dragged his body to the bathroom and somehow made it so his face was in the toilet. He completely deserves it for fathering Raiden (or at the very least looking just like him)
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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:37 pm

I shot him...repeated. Then I dragged his body to the bathroom and somehow made it so his face was in the toilet. He completely deserves it for fathering Raiden (or at the very least looking just like him)


There was a damn good reason that I kept on wearing that Russian BDU in MGS2, literally to the very end of the game. I don't need to see some guy's ass cheeks and the general size of his groin all day, as much as he looks like a girl (which just makes it damn creepy). Still, the awesomeness of the BDU didn't cover his extremely annoying personality, nor his awe-inspiring ability to state the oh-so obvious.
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Joie Perez
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:09 pm

Daedra are unconcerned with mortal things, with nothing invested in it.


Exactly. They turned into immortals, which was something to be feared.
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Cat Haines
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:39 pm

All gods have there motives - The need to be worshiped, loved, respected and feared, Azura is no different, Nither was The Tribunal. I can understand Azura being pissed, Out of the Deadric Princes she was the one who aided the Dunmer the most in my opinion, Seeing the Tribunal, Three mortals, The epitome of the Dunmer race, Kind, Heroic, Humble, Go against her wishes and Nerevars, Useing Lorkhans heart and ascending to "Godhood". After that, disregardeing the worship of her and her fellow Deadric Princes, Must have hurt her. She vented like Women do, Changed the Dunmer's skin and swore things would be made right. Female gods, More scary and unpredictable than Sheogorath. Just give them plenty of love and your sound as a pound :)
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Bryanna Vacchiano
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:08 pm

The need to be worshiped

They don't need to be worshipped. Most don't even care.
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WYatt REed
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:31 pm

They don't need to be worshipped. Most don't even care.



I thought the Worship (or fear) of a Divine being is where it draws its power, by way of the Myth?
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FITTAS
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:50 pm

I thought the Worship (or fear) of a Divine being is where it draws its power, by way of the Myth?




I'd say that would be more to do with Aedra - the ones bound to the world with worshippers. Daedra lords were around from the beginning - eons before the mortals came, so mortals couldn't have a directly affect the Daedra Lord's power. The view of worshippers increasing the Lord's power could be like the Mythic Dawn to Dagon - they, his worshippers, allow him more influence in Nirn by being able to open gates to Oblivion etc.
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Dan Stevens
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:03 am

They don't need to be worshipped. Most don't even care.


They obviously care, Why go to so much trouble to bring discord/harmony to Nirn if there not going to get anything out of it?, They want to be known.
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Roberto Gaeta
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:47 pm

I can see the Tribunal doing something just as petty and childish to another race if they wanted to.

Azura isn't any more or less bad than the other Daedric Princes. I'd follow her over Molag Bal any day.

And her actions really aren't all that startling. Boethia crapped the Orsimer into Orcs. I'd say the orcs have it way worse than the Dunmer, so why is all the vitriol reserved for Azura and not Boethia? Daedra and Aedra (or aedric beings) meddle and tamper with mortals and Nirn. I suppose the Daedric Princes have less of a right to go fussing around with someone else's creation, but it is hardly surprising and there's no cosmic rules against it.
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Jennie Skeletons
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:43 am

They obviously care, Why go to so much trouble to bring discord/harmony to Nirn if there not going to get anything out of it?

Fun.
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Melanie Steinberg
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:09 pm

The whole Chimer to Dunmer transformation seemed to be only surface deep, if Azura had anythng to do with it, it was probably only to mark them forever - a reminder of their own folly in worshiping false gods. The Orsimer on the other hand were transformed totally, becoming outcasts to every race in Tamriel.
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rebecca moody
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:24 pm

Azura is extremely childish. She did it to make a point that she didn't want it to happen. Her lack-of-maturity is why she is my least-respected daedric prince (right below Sheogorath).


Sheogorath is immature? Reading the stories of his interactions with the other Daedric Princes I'd say he is anything but immature, quite cerebral actually. In those stories it appears that he uses his quirkiness to hide a cunning and clever mind.
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Monika Krzyzak
 
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Post » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:26 am

During one of my forages into Morrowind with a Mage and bookworm. I did feel a strong sense of being played, in the later parts of the MainQuest.
To many puppeteers cling to Vvvardenfell.

Azura, the first among them.
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Trent Theriot
 
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