Hello,

The first Oblivion gates open in Kvatch, where Martin lives. It's hard to believe it could be just a coincidence, and I assume the last of Uriel's heir was the target. But :

- If the Daedra knew exactly who Martin was, why didn't they just sent Mythic Dawn Assassins after him ? They have proved to be highly efficient.
- If they just knew that "there is a Septim heir in Kvatch", how did they knew it ? The existence of Martin is supposed to be the most well-kept secret in the empire.

Or was there another reason for Dagon to strike Kvatch ?

good point, not sure how to answer. but it did make for an epic and dramatic intro to the game, which is always good. it was an amazing moment to go into that gate for the very first time

Possiblities:

-When Uriel passed on the secret of martin to the player. Maybe a preteneding-to-be-dead mythic dawn heard
-The other person who knew about martin (cant remember his name) the retired blades dude... is a double agent

i dont know

I think he wanted to kill two birds with one stone - to kill the heir and to start the invasion. Also, he attacked Kvatch in the past(and suffered defeat, like always) so it's kind of personal to him.

The first one can't be : Uriel never said his heir was in Kvatch.
Do you know who is the other person who knew about Martin or where he was ?

I think he was talking about Jaufree

Which divine had it's chapel in Kvatch?

Add to that, who's chapel is in Bruma, the second city to be attacked with a great gate?

Answer those questions, then think about it.

The PC in TES IV seemed under the impression that the invasion started in Kvatch because Martin was there.

As for Bruma, I always figured it was the Chapel of Talos because of it's proximity to Cloud Ruler Temple.

True, the PC does tell Martin the daedra were trying to get him. It is possible that Camoran knew somehow. However, equally important is the fact that the chapel of Akatosh is at Kvatch.

Thank you.

Dagon doesn't seem to realize that Akatosh always beats him.

He's a Daedra and can't be destroyed, he knows he'll get a second, third, fourth... chance. Personally if I was Dagon I would've attacked Bravil because that place is a hole. Then I wouldv've claimed it as a "civil service" and gotten a ton of worshipers onto my "Oblivion Beautification" project. Oh hang on just remembered that Sithis' chick is in Bravil. Think I'd pick a fight with Akatosh instead after all.

He had a score to settle with the Battlemages of the 33rd. Everybody knows that.

Yup. That and the chapels makes a pretty compelling argument that it was luck on Dagon's part that he attacked the place where Martin was.

The 1st fight of the http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/aldudagga.shtml suggests a reason why Dagon does what he does.

It's worth considering whether Dagon and Camoran might have had different motives.

But he wants to get back into being the leaper demon. Poor guy...

Did any one thought about the possibility that Camoran is a god? I mean, he had enough power to create his own kind of heaven, maybe he could somehow communicate with the gods, perhaps the Aedra or Daedra already knew about it?

Did anybody worship Camoran? If yes, he was a god. If no, he wasn't. The definition of godhood is merely that; power doesn't enter in the equation at any way. (It's just that people want to worship powerful beings, usually -- or at least, beings they imagine are powerful.)

I'm not entirely sure but most of the joined crazed people that followed Camoran worshipped Dagon right?
And Camoran was pretty much the "High Priest" and wasn't worshipped?

I think i was a last ditch attempt to kill Martin before the hero gets to him taking him to imperial safety. I think they mighthave only found out about it atthelast second.

TES: IV: DAGON ATTACK



This time. It's personal.

Eh... I gues he just wanted to start the Daedric Invasion off with a bang, and by destroying an entire city, worrying the Empire heavily. (Which of course, it did.)

Wasn't Ald'ruhn also destroyed? It seems that Dagon wanted to go for the second-biggest city in Cyrodiil, because of the Chapel of Akatosh, and he just got lucky.

A fine point about Ald'ruhn - that has nothing to do with either Akatosh or Martin.


Camoran was the son of another famous Camoran who created a massive army of undead and daedra in Valenwood and went on a rampage that stretched from there all the way to Bretony via the Colvian West and Hammerfel - the Redguard lands. On the way he committed unspeakable atrocities - notably in Kvatch.

You might ask yourself how a mere sorcereer could summon an entire army of undead and Daedra unaided ... and who his Master was:

There is a book in Oblivion called The Refugees that covers this - you can read it http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/refugees.shtml It is pretty clear that Haymon Camoran - aka the Camoran Usurper, aka The Heart-King fathered Mankar Camoran on one of his Bosmer Concubines and she ran away from him.

If Dagon was Haymon Camoran's Master then that ties up a lot of loose ends - while still leaving the underlying strategy open to interpretation. Frankly I do not believe that Mankar Camoran was personally so powerful, I believe that he employed his master's power to do what he was told, as did his father before him.

But interestingly enough they both had a go at Kvatch - and Martin was not alive in Haymon Camoran's time - so we are left with the Temple of Akatosh as the likely candidate. and not simply fo rspite. As has been said earlier, if you are worshipped you are a God - but if your Temple/s are razed then people might not believe in you so strongly anymore and eventually they might cease to worship you entirely.

I have two theories there:

1 - It's the seat of power for House Redoran. With Indoril weakened, Redoran's honorable Knights would prove the greatest challenge to Dagon's invasion of Morrowind. It's also one of the strongest Temple worshiping towns of Vvardenfell with the obvious exception of Vivec city itself, and the Ghostgate (which was also attacked). Taking out Ald'Ruhn not only weakens the morale of Morrowind by showing their gods no longer protect them, but it removes a large chunk of the elite warrior class of the Island.

2 - Ald'Ruhn, like Kvatch, is situated more or less right in the middle of several other towns. Demolishing it removes important trade routes and travel paths. Taking out these centralized cities first is an important tactic in total war because it forces the enemy to scatter and diminishes their resources and ability to travel and trade efficiently.