^ and yes DS 3 was hard to swallow

I'm afraid you're spot on with your view.
Just look at youtube and watch some NV LPs, and get your final proof for the infinity of human stupidity.
90% are not able to grasp the simple concept of different ammo types, and how to use them accordingly.
You hardly see anyone playing in HC mode, and those who do, don't have a clue how to do it properly.
Look at these dim-witted people in this forum trying to explain us how Fallout3's story was supposedly deeper and *much better*.
Look at how many people complained about the decision to grant perks only every other level, and how they called the decision to force the players to spend a little thought into their character builds *stupid*
It is also reflected in the mod landscape over at he Nexus.
The majority of the mods are all about watering down the gameplay mechanics, introducing ridiculous things like sprint buttons or grenade hotkeys, to make it more CoD-like(without being challenging, though), no matter it's crushing the game balance or not. It's full of genius mods like "perk every level", "2 perks every level" and hundreds of them just introduce ridicously overpowered pieces of equipment.
And their authors are insolent enough to call that "fixes".
No, let's face the truth, FNVs gameplay mechanics are vastly overtaxing the intellectual capabilities of the majority of players, whose avg INT-values are somewhere between 3 and 4.
Same goes for the sheer mass of written dialogue. The more you have of it, the worse for your average *I want explore*(code for running through random dungeons filled with cannon fodder opponents and tons of loot) dialogue skipper.
The more dialogue there is, the more is gonna be skipped, the higher the chance the skipper might miss some important info.
And if this starts causing problems to the skipper, he gets angry and starts blaming the game for being stuck. *sigh*
So, they're just better off with a "must-go-see-for-papa and kill many many Super Mutants and people in black super armor on the way"

So yeah, I also think we should be thankful for having NV, and await Fallout 4 with rather low expectations.
I think Skyrim shows pretty clearly, that there is little will to take over some of the concepts Obsidian introduced.
I'm just hoping for a somewhat decent writing, enhancing the gameplay mechanics will be taken care of modders then.
Still Bethesda deserves a lot of credit for reviving the series(and for, after all, delivering a solid basis for an awesome gameplay experience, casualization efforts aside), and giving Obsidian the opportunity to make a true modern day Fallout game.
Tomorrow, i'm gonna get the PC version of the UE, after having played it on the PS3 for all the time, and I'm sooooo looking forward to it.
Project Reality, Electro City, Imaginator, Texture packs, Enhanced shaders, and all of that with good frame rates, here I come...

FO:NV in general is just a terribly written game. I mean someone just shoots you and you say "o ok ill get em bakk lol" but multiple raiders shoot you and you don't go across a U-Turned wasteland? FO3 was just better in so many ways. The combat was AMAZING, the main quest was horrible in NV, I think they got a monkey to write it or something. I mean, you come out of a doctors shack? In FO3 you come out a vault, experiencing the wastes for the VERY FIRST TIME. You'd be a fool not to see how amazing FO3 is, I mean your dear old dad, that you have known and loved for 21 years, leaves you. Of course you'll find him. Not to mention James was an awesome father. When he left the vault I almost cried. Anyways, the Legion? People who throw spears and wear skirts as the main enemy? NCR? People who can barely organize themselves for the main enemy? I prefer the Enclave, after all, overused enemies are the best. They should be the bad guy in FO4, that would make me happy. GO ENCLAVE, even though I hate them to death. You can't even finish the main quest in NV with the BoS! Are you serious? Not to mention you don't even meet Lyon's, I thought he led the BoS for life.

Of course they don't. Example 1: "Fallout 3", Example 2: "Skyrim"

They know they can get away with (what somebody else brilliantly called) hiking simulators with no real content and that is what they will continue to do. The moment Todd Howard said "Cuz violence is [censored]in funny!" we knew it was over.


I want to have each one of you doing this banned. I CAN'T TAKE IT!!!

Pure Gold



I'm pretty sure he's just doing a parody

I know that. That's my point.

Eh, wat. I'm not an FNV modder, and I still feel indignant on their behalf. There are god items and bouncy boob mods at the Nexus, but you're wrong in saying that they're in the majority. And, just because CoD has sprint capability, does not mean it's a terrible idea for FNV.

I also find the general argument that most gamers are a bunch of drooling idiots really annoying. Most gamers I know in real life are casual gamers, who do not spend thirty hours a week playing games. To lapse into personal anecdote, I have recently started using the perk every level mod, not because I am a moron like you seem to imply but because, with uni starting up very soon I simply don't have enough time to juggle three or four different playthroughs of New Vegas, and I wanted to see everything the DLCs have to offer. Maybe some people say it leads to a lack of character diversity, but personally I find that I roleplay and take risks the most when I'm not pressed to survive - taking that useless perk for RP reasons (or because I'm curious about what it does) - say, Sneering Imperialist - becomes much more acceptable with the knowledge that I'll have more than enough to also take the ones that I need.

Maybe that offends you as a disciple to the temple of game balance, but whatever. It's not a multiplayer game and I'm not going around complaining that the game has become too easy. My point is that for regarding the dumbing down of games, it's easy to sneer "stupid sheeple are stupid" but that's ignoring that there are plenty other reasons why.

Mind[censored].

You knew the risks while entering this place.

I certainly did NOT!

Patrolling this forum makes me wish for a nuclear winter.

I Used to post in more forums like you, untill i took an arrow to the knee.

There are a bunch a fantastic looking things to download there, and I'd never dare to deny that.
After all, my main reason to get me a new PC was being able to play a modded FNV, that's how far my love goes.
Still, when browsing through the content beyond the list of top endorsed mods, I can't help other than coming to the impression stated.

As for the sprint button in particular, that is something the game mechanics imho are not set up for.
First of all, adverse to the FPS games it was taken from, in FNV you are running already. The movement speed is a lot faster than in FPS games.
Installing that sprint button accelerates your courier like sports car. It makes you the fastest thing in the wasteland, and lets you get away from anything with total ease. It's an easy button.
It also defeats the purpose of introducing different armor classes with different trade offs and benefits, namely movement speed vs protection.
But that's taking me a bit away from my actual point. Whoever wants to use that, shall do.
I just named it as an example for this general trend of shooterizing and casualizing the game.



Nothing wrong with that.
But when one of these casuals starts playing a game like Fallout and then refuses to actually get into its game mechanics, and THEN starts complaining and swearing how stupid the game supposedly is, when it's clearly the person looking into the screen, then my tolerance quickly ends, sorry.



Yeah, but you did that without running around in a forum or yelling in a Lets Play how this now done *right*, and what a screw up Obsidian supposedly caused


Just going from my personal experience, 25 (or 15, respectively) perks to take are still *quite* the number.
I have 6 or 7 perks I'd consider being essential, the rest is for playing around.
So, there's always enough room for Lady Killer, Miss Fortune, and Terrifying Presence. I really don't need 50 perk slots to take some of the funny ones.



Stupidity, ignorance, lazyness, choose the term of your liking

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1242541-thank-you-lonesome-road-for-hysterical-lets-play-deaths/

These people aren't exceptions, they are the rule. Sad but true.

Alternatively follow one of the endless threads dealing with why FO3 was so much better, and why FNV is so baaaaaaad.

I wrote my posting under the impression of such people like in these videos, or in memory of all the kids flooding the forum and trolling almost every thread about the gameplay changes Obsidian implemented.
And the pattern there is a clear one. Everything that added complexity, forced the player to think a bit, or took something away from careless action was shunned.
I had discussions with dudes who complained about the faction system, and the fact there's no killing a whole NCR camp and still being able to do their quests.
There are still threads about the no post-gameplay issue being opened.
I take your efforts in defending less gifted minds in high regards, and I know I'm not sounding particularly modest when talking about this issue.
It is just so damn annoying and frustrating for me to see how efforts to make a game more complex and demanding, in a different way rather than just raise enemy HP and damage, are being perceived.

It doesn't annoy or frustrate me as much as it just feels cripplingly depressing. This is the future we have to look forward to?

And this is why we launch the nukes at both Fallout 3 and Skyrim, for a chance to Begin Again.

What's so funny about me letting out my emotions

Wow, just wow.
He vids in the link made me wanna kill my self.
This DPSgaming kid is plain old stupid.
Why isint my bare fist hurting this guy??!?!...... I slapped my own face when he said that crap. People like that should just stick to BomberMan, actually, that's probably still too difficult for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWeW2rFa6OE

That video changed my life.

P.S. You were crying

I'll be the bigger man here, yes I did cry. It let out all the sadness that was built up due to RAGE/ Skyrim. I feel much better now.

The main reason, was that Beth was busy making Skyrim.

From how half-assed Skyrim is I guess they needed to devote all of their resources just to getting it into a playable condition. I hope they farm out the next one, too.

Hehe, Indeed.

Skyrim: Halfass

Sounds like a much more honest title!

With the back end of a donkey as the cover.

Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community. Name one other game from Bethesda that does not offer a complete guide with all DLC. In the mod community, even BOSS and Wrye Flash NV stopped being supported. As for the game itself... well, I have played RPGs since the original D&D and computer games since Spacewar on teletypes, and FONV simply isn't a very good RPG.

Before some here jump all over me, try getting past your own personal play preferences and consider that an RPG must allow player choice and be viable for all play styles. FONV, even worse than FO3, completely undermines energy weapons and ranged play styles. Skyrim faces the exact same problem, albeit with magic rather than energy weapons (and no EVE mod for magic kills).

Not to mention the constant crashes that are far more frequent than even a modded FO3, and the invisible walls that are far worse than any game I have ever played. I mean, really, why show a rock ledge for sniping and then have an invisible wall that stops you from getting on the ledge to do exactly what you are leading such a playstyle to do? If you don't want ranged players to snipe, don't put the weapons in the game at all, and don't show sniping locations at all. It's much better than having them be an illusion in the game.

I should also add the over the top spaghetti Western approach to the Vegas area and the West Coast in general (it isn't this way, and it wasn't this way in the 1950s, either... I used to visit grandparents in Boulder City every year on family vacations and we went by car and travelled all over, every state, west of the Mississippi). Of course, if you are a fan of such content, you'll be at home, but as some other players have said, the entire environment doesn't feel anywhere near as post-apocalpytic as the Capital Wasteland in FO3. To see one example of the problem, just consider the ads in the two games. FO3 had ads, billboards, etc that showed the hypocrisy of the "utopian" society that middle class America largely embraced after WWII (the illusion of which lived on later in popular sitcoms like Happy Days and Lavern & Shirley in the 1970s, and films like Back to the Future and Peggy Sue Got Married in the 1980s). FONV, in contrast, offers... casino ads? Cowboy ads? Huh?! Bethesda's writers understood the dark humor of such a setting and the irony of a "perfect" society self-destructing. Obsidian does not, obviously.

For that matter, consider the complete implausibility that a nuclear war around the world would leave Vegas and the Hoover Dam intact, and you can see that the entire foundation of the environment is ludicrous.

Even if you wanted to forgive all of this, the idea that humanity is barely surviving after a nuclear holocaust but you have all sorts of petty faction squabbling and power plays is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I cannot really care about any of the characters in FONV because none of them have any real depth or interest, with the possible exception of Veronica and Cass.

Want a true RPG in this type of setting? Well, a company would have to create an environment where cooperation was essential and the goal is to build alliances to simply survive. If this was not accomplished, the player would die, plain and simple, as well as any NPCs. Might be boring for some people due to lack of "action" but it would be far more of a roleplay environment than FONV offers.

One person here made a comment that FONV takes all the issues with FO3 and makes them even worse. No specific examples were offered, but as far as technical issues and game issues such as not supporting all play styles, particularly energy weapons and ranged combat, the comment is accurate (as well as the crashes, invisible walls, characters falling into textures, etc, of course).

There's nothing wrong with people liking this game, of course, and I am not saying there is. However, the people who find the many flaws in it are not looking for "casual mindless gaming." Just the opposite, in fact. I am an academic and anolyze games constantly, particularly good pedagogical tools such as Bethesda's products. I spend hundreds of hours in their games doing anolysis. This would not be "fun" for most people, but I enjoy it and that's how I play games. FONV might as well simply have a text list of locations to visit, quests to select, and (poor) rewards to receive. I stopped Skyrim to play FONV after all the DLC came out, but I'm having difficulty seeing how I can motivate myself to continue anolyzing a game with so many issues even after modding. Skyrim actually took some things from here such as the ludicrous AI behavior (oh, let's force all players to do melee encounters by having AI behave with human, psychic abilities, what a great idea!) However, do not try to claim that the game doesn't have these flaws or that it is in any way the last great RPG offered for modern gamers. That is simply ignoring the product and its actual content offering.

You say it's not a very good RPG, then you cite:

-The mod community doesn't embrace it
-Lack of weapon balancing (Energy Weapons being the only outcast here, and I can show you 2-3 builds for Energy Weapons that work, albeit yes, their depth can't compare to Unarmed, Melee or Guns)
-Game stability
-Cowboy Theme
-Vegas surviving the bombs (an EXACT explanation is given for how, how many bombs actually hit the Mojave, and you can locate almost all of them and find they're nowhere near the city)
-Society barely surviving (NCR is flourishing, as is New Vegas. Legion is basically in the iron age, but they're not STRUGGLING for survival; they just don't embrace tech)
-Characters have no depth


The ones highlighted in red? I ask wtf do those have to do with being a good RPG. Your list implies a good RPG MUST not be buggy, must have plenty of mods, must not have a cowboy theme, must not have Vegas surviving AND must have a flourishing society. Stability is nice, but this has nothing to do with being a good RPG.

Mods are nice too, but again, nothing to do with being a good RPG. Infact, I would actually argue that the less mods a game needs, the better it is. I'm not saying mods are bad, but the way I see it, if a game needs less mods then that means the CORE gameplay is better. A game that needs to be modded to death from the get-go is half-assed on the dev's part.

Society barely surviving and Vegas surviving the bombs? For someone who claims to be so anolytical, it seems as though two very basic storyline elements went completely over your head. The first can be seen before even getting to Vegas (that society IS flourishing again), the second can be explained the moment you enter Vegas by one of the game's key figures.
You also say New Vegas should be about society working together to rebuild, which is FUNDAMENTALLY AGAINST WHAT FALLOUT IS ABOUT. "War, War never changes." That's the theme. That's the point. The point is that humanity managed to bomb the earth to hell SO hard that we're still feeling it 200 years later, and yet we STILL haven't learned our lesson. Why? And that's what it's about: the "why" of it. What you're saying is basically as if somebody picked up Harry Potter and said "nah it's crap, Harry Potter should be more about vampires;" that's fundamentally against what the series is about. Also worth mentioning that people ARE working together to rebuild, but different societies have different opinions of HOW to rebuild, and that's why the war starts.
You even got bonus points by saying "Bethesda understands the point of Fallout, Obsidian obviously doesn't" when Obsidian currently employs the creator, project director of FO1, project director of FO2 and the project director of the cancelled FO3: Van Buren. What the hell??? You're telling the AUTHORS they don't understand their own series?

Cowboy theme is opinion, and I don't recall Fallout REQUIRING a 1950's feel. I also don't exactly think of the Mojave-[censored]-desert when I picture Little Timmy coming home from a game of baseball to eat T-Bone Steak with Maw and Pa as they sit in their cozy little home with a green lawn and garden.

And characters having no depth? ....The hell have you been talking to? The anonymous NCR Soldiers?

And furthermore, what puzzles me is that you seem to think ranged weapons svck? How the HELL did you manage to come to that conclusion? You claim to anolyze a game completey and yet you seem to be missing big obvious game elements regarding weapon balancing, NPCs having 30 minutes worth of dialog where they cite real world events, philosophies and theories, and the overall storyline. The hell have you been anolyzing?

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, yes, but I can't help but read your post and feel like we're playing a completely different game, as those last three are the STRONG POINTS of New Vegas...
I can't help but feel like you've taken your initial impression, noticed mistakes, and whereas I said "why" and dug deeper to get an answer (which to my surprise, the answers were ALL there, and that's exactly why I call New Vegas the best RPG I've ever played), you just said "Omfg I'm having to ask why, clearly that means this game is crap and there are certainly no answers to my questions prepared further into the game."

You aren't breaking any bubble, you're sitting in your own wihout noticing it


Look, just because you are lacking the cognitve capabilities to set up a proper EW build, it doesn't mean it isn't possible.
It is *very* possible, and if you for whatever reason fail at it, don't blame the game.




Yeah, invisible walls, clearly a core aspect when it gets to judging a RPG



You can of course choose to not liking it, just bear one thing in mind: Fallout and Fallout 2 were both westerns, and FNV is just following that tradition



Yeah, but the Capitol still standing and most of DC, too, is totally plausible, yes?
It is, by the way also explained in the game, why Vegas and the Dam are still standing.
It is pretty evident you've never had a conversation with Mr. House...




it is 200 years after, you somewhat fail to understand this.
Also your understanding of human nature seems a bit...underdeveloped.
i'll leave it with that.


I'd rather suggest you just failed in discovering other characters. Ever did Boone or Arcades or Raul companion quests?
You can have hour long, very interesting discussions with people like Hanlon, Ceasar, House and the likes.
Just name *ONE* other RPG with that much of dialogue and different people you can interact with.


So, a true RPG by your account is one with a plot and setting you prefer. If you don't like plot and setting it ain't a *true* RPG.
Really? Really?




This is pure comedy.



Sure, and I'm the president of the Red Cross.
Your anolyzing efforts leave a lot of room for improvement. Start figuring out how to make an EW character first.
After that, take the next step and try to interact with the gameworld a little bit more.
You know, talking to people, not skipping dialogue after the third line, such things.
Perhaps you'll discover some of the depth you claimed to be missing.
Sorry to say that, but it's not the game lacking depth, it's you.