Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community.

Oh dear! Does this mean I can't install 5,000 hilariously large-briasted anime skins on Cass?!

^ and yes DS 3 was hard to swallow

Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community. Name one other game from Bethesda that does not offer a complete guide with all DLC. In the mod community, even BOSS and Wrye Flash NV stopped being supported. As for the game itself... well, I have played RPGs since the original D&D and computer games since Spacewar on teletypes, and FONV simply isn't a very good RPG.

Before some here jump all over me, try getting past your own personal play preferences and consider that an RPG must allow player choice and be viable for all play styles. FONV, even worse than FO3, completely undermines energy weapons and ranged play styles. Skyrim faces the exact same problem, albeit with magic rather than energy weapons (and no EVE mod for magic kills).

Not to mention the constant crashes that are far more frequent than even a modded FO3, and the invisible walls that are far worse than any game I have ever played. I mean, really, why show a rock ledge for sniping and then have an invisible wall that stops you from getting on the ledge to do exactly what you are leading such a playstyle to do? If you don't want ranged players to snipe, don't put the weapons in the game at all, and don't show sniping locations at all. It's much better than having them be an illusion in the game.

I should also add the over the top spaghetti Western approach to the Vegas area and the West Coast in general (it isn't this way, and it wasn't this way in the 1950s, either... I used to visit grandparents in Boulder City every year on family vacations and we went by car and travelled all over, every state, west of the Mississippi). Of course, if you are a fan of such content, you'll be at home, but as some other players have said, the entire environment doesn't feel anywhere near as post-apocalpytic as the Capital Wasteland in FO3. To see one example of the problem, just consider the ads in the two games. FO3 had ads, billboards, etc that showed the hypocrisy of the "utopian" society that middle class America largely embraced after WWII (the illusion of which lived on later in popular sitcoms like Happy Days and Lavern & Shirley in the 1970s, and films like Back to the Future and Peggy Sue Got Married in the 1980s). FONV, in contrast, offers... casino ads? Cowboy ads? Huh?! Bethesda's writers understood the dark humor of such a setting and the irony of a "perfect" society self-destructing. Obsidian does not, obviously.

For that matter, consider the complete implausibility that a nuclear war around the world would leave Vegas and the Hoover Dam intact, and you can see that the entire foundation of the environment is ludicrous.

Even if you wanted to forgive all of this, the idea that humanity is barely surviving after a nuclear holocaust but you have all sorts of petty faction squabbling and power plays is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I cannot really care about any of the characters in FONV because none of them have any real depth or interest, with the possible exception of Veronica and Cass.

Want a true RPG in this type of setting? Well, a company would have to create an environment where cooperation was essential and the goal is to build alliances to simply survive. If this was not accomplished, the player would die, plain and simple, as well as any NPCs. Might be boring for some people due to lack of "action" but it would be far more of a roleplay environment than FONV offers.

One person here made a comment that FONV takes all the issues with FO3 and makes them even worse. No specific examples were offered, but as far as technical issues and game issues such as not supporting all play styles, particularly energy weapons and ranged combat, the comment is accurate (as well as the crashes, invisible walls, characters falling into textures, etc, of course).

There's nothing wrong with people liking this game, of course, and I am not saying there is. However, the people who find the many flaws in it are not looking for "casual mindless gaming." Just the opposite, in fact. I am an academic and anolyze games constantly, particularly good pedagogical tools such as Bethesda's products. I spend hundreds of hours in their games doing anolysis. This would not be "fun" for most people, but I enjoy it and that's how I play games. FONV might as well simply have a text list of locations to visit, quests to select, and (poor) rewards to receive. I stopped Skyrim to play FONV after all the DLC came out, but I'm having difficulty seeing how I can motivate myself to continue anolyzing a game with so many issues even after modding. Skyrim actually took some things from here such as the ludicrous AI behavior (oh, let's force all players to do melee encounters by having AI behave with human, psychic abilities, what a great idea!) However, do not try to claim that the game doesn't have these flaws or that it is in any way the last great RPG offered for modern gamers. That is simply ignoring the product and its actual content offering.

Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community. Name one other game from Bethesda that does not offer a complete guide with all DLC. In the mod community, even BOSS and Wrye Flash NV stopped being supported. As for the game itself... well, I have played RPGs since the original D&D and computer games since Spacewar on teletypes, and FONV simply isn't a very good RPG.

Before some here jump all over me, try getting past your own personal play preferences and consider that an RPG must allow player choice and be viable for all play styles. FONV, even worse than FO3, completely undermines energy weapons and ranged play styles. Skyrim faces the exact same problem, albeit with magic rather than energy weapons (and no EVE mod for magic kills).

Not to mention the constant crashes that are far more frequent than even a modded FO3, and the invisible walls that are far worse than any game I have ever played. I mean, really, why show a rock ledge for sniping and then have an invisible wall that stops you from getting on the ledge to do exactly what you are leading such a playstyle to do? If you don't want ranged players to snipe, don't put the weapons in the game at all, and don't show sniping locations at all. It's much better than having them be an illusion in the game.

I should also add the over the top spaghetti Western approach to the Vegas area and the West Coast in general (it isn't this way, and it wasn't this way in the 1950s, either... I used to visit grandparents in Boulder City every year on family vacations and we went by car and travelled all over, every state, west of the Mississippi). Of course, if you are a fan of such content, you'll be at home, but as some other players have said, the entire environment doesn't feel anywhere near as post-apocalpytic as the Capital Wasteland in FO3. To see one example of the problem, just consider the ads in the two games. FO3 had ads, billboards, etc that showed the hypocrisy of the "utopian" society that middle class America largely embraced after WWII (the illusion of which lived on later in popular sitcoms like Happy Days and Lavern & Shirley in the 1970s, and films like Back to the Future and Peggy Sue Got Married in the 1980s). FONV, in contrast, offers... casino ads? Cowboy ads? Huh?! Bethesda's writers understood the dark humor of such a setting and the irony of a "perfect" society self-destructing. Obsidian does not, obviously.

For that matter, consider the complete implausibility that a nuclear war around the world would leave Vegas and the Hoover Dam intact, and you can see that the entire foundation of the environment is ludicrous.

Even if you wanted to forgive all of this, the idea that humanity is barely surviving after a nuclear holocaust but you have all sorts of petty faction squabbling and power plays is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I cannot really care about any of the characters in FONV because none of them have any real depth or interest, with the possible exception of Veronica and Cass.

Want a true RPG in this type of setting? Well, a company would have to create an environment where cooperation was essential and the goal is to build alliances to simply survive. If this was not accomplished, the player would die, plain and simple, as well as any NPCs. Might be boring for some people due to lack of "action" but it would be far more of a roleplay environment than FONV offers.

One person here made a comment that FONV takes all the issues with FO3 and makes them even worse. No specific examples were offered, but as far as technical issues and game issues such as not supporting all play styles, particularly energy weapons and ranged combat, the comment is accurate (as well as the crashes, invisible walls, characters falling into textures, etc, of course).

There's nothing wrong with people liking this game, of course, and I am not saying there is. However, the people who find the many flaws in it are not looking for "casual mindless gaming." Just the opposite, in fact. I am an academic and anolyze games constantly, particularly good pedagogical tools such as Bethesda's products. I spend hundreds of hours in their games doing anolysis. This would not be "fun" for most people, but I enjoy it and that's how I play games. FONV might as well simply have a text list of locations to visit, quests to select, and (poor) rewards to receive. I stopped Skyrim to play FONV after all the DLC came out, but I'm having difficulty seeing how I can motivate myself to continue anolyzing a game with so many issues even after modding. Skyrim actually took some things from here such as the ludicrous AI behavior (oh, let's force all players to do melee encounters by having AI behave with human, psychic abilities, what a great idea!) However, do not try to claim that the game doesn't have these flaws or that it is in any way the last great RPG offered for modern gamers. That is simply ignoring the product and its actual content offering.

Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community. Name one other game from Bethesda that does not offer a complete guide with all DLC. In the mod community, even BOSS and Wrye Flash NV stopped being supported. As for the game itself... well, I have played RPGs since the original D&D and computer games since Spacewar on teletypes, and FONV simply isn't a very good RPG.

Before some here jump all over me, try getting past your own personal play preferences and consider that an RPG must allow player choice and be viable for all play styles. FONV, even worse than FO3, completely undermines energy weapons and ranged play styles. Skyrim faces the exact same problem, albeit with magic rather than energy weapons (and no EVE mod for magic kills).

Not to mention the constant crashes that are far more frequent than even a modded FO3, and the invisible walls that are far worse than any game I have ever played. I mean, really, why show a rock ledge for sniping and then have an invisible wall that stops you from getting on the ledge to do exactly what you are leading such a playstyle to do? If you don't want ranged players to snipe, don't put the weapons in the game at all, and don't show sniping locations at all. It's much better than having them be an illusion in the game.

I should also add the over the top spaghetti Western approach to the Vegas area and the West Coast in general (it isn't this way, and it wasn't this way in the 1950s, either... I used to visit grandparents in Boulder City every year on family vacations and we went by car and travelled all over, every state, west of the Mississippi). Of course, if you are a fan of such content, you'll be at home, but as some other players have said, the entire environment doesn't feel anywhere near as post-apocalpytic as the Capital Wasteland in FO3. To see one example of the problem, just consider the ads in the two games. FO3 had ads, billboards, etc that showed the hypocrisy of the "utopian" society that middle class America largely embraced after WWII (the illusion of which lived on later in popular sitcoms like Happy Days and Lavern & Shirley in the 1970s, and films like Back to the Future and Peggy Sue Got Married in the 1980s). FONV, in contrast, offers... casino ads? Cowboy ads? Huh?! Bethesda's writers understood the dark humor of such a setting and the irony of a "perfect" society self-destructing. Obsidian does not, obviously.

For that matter, consider the complete implausibility that a nuclear war around the world would leave Vegas and the Hoover Dam intact, and you can see that the entire foundation of the environment is ludicrous.

Even if you wanted to forgive all of this, the idea that humanity is barely surviving after a nuclear holocaust but you have all sorts of petty faction squabbling and power plays is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I cannot really care about any of the characters in FONV because none of them have any real depth or interest, with the possible exception of Veronica and Cass.

Want a true RPG in this type of setting? Well, a company would have to create an environment where cooperation was essential and the goal is to build alliances to simply survive. If this was not accomplished, the player would die, plain and simple, as well as any NPCs. Might be boring for some people due to lack of "action" but it would be far more of a roleplay environment than FONV offers.

One person here made a comment that FONV takes all the issues with FO3 and makes them even worse. No specific examples were offered, but as far as technical issues and game issues such as not supporting all play styles, particularly energy weapons and ranged combat, the comment is accurate (as well as the crashes, invisible walls, characters falling into textures, etc, of course).

There's nothing wrong with people liking this game, of course, and I am not saying there is. However, the people who find the many flaws in it are not looking for "casual mindless gaming." Just the opposite, in fact. I am an academic and anolyze games constantly, particularly good pedagogical tools such as Bethesda's products. I spend hundreds of hours in their games doing anolysis. This would not be "fun" for most people, but I enjoy it and that's how I play games. FONV might as well simply have a text list of locations to visit, quests to select, and (poor) rewards to receive. I stopped Skyrim to play FONV after all the DLC came out, but I'm having difficulty seeing how I can motivate myself to continue anolyzing a game with so many issues even after modding. Skyrim actually took some things from here such as the ludicrous AI behavior (oh, let's force all players to do melee encounters by having AI behave with human, psychic abilities, what a great idea!) However, do not try to claim that the game doesn't have these flaws or that it is in any way the last great RPG offered for modern gamers. That is simply ignoring the product and its actual content offering.

Call me a cynic, but I don't think Bethie would've forgotten the idea of another quickly developed Fallout game by another dev to further cash in with the FO3 success had Obsidian said "no". Meaning, I don't believe the reason for the next game was to see how some of the original devs would handle the situation - it was just appropriate (and convenient) for them to ask from the best candidate first to give a pitch.

Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community. Name one other game from Bethesda that does not offer a complete guide with all DLC. In the mod community, even BOSS and Wrye Flash NV stopped being supported. As for the game itself... well, I have played RPGs since the original D&D and computer games since Spacewar on teletypes, and FONV simply isn't a very good RPG.

Before some here jump all over me, try getting past your own personal play preferences and consider that an RPG must allow player choice and be viable for all play styles. FONV, even worse than FO3, completely undermines energy weapons and ranged play styles. Skyrim faces the exact same problem, albeit with magic rather than energy weapons (and no EVE mod for magic kills).

Not to mention the constant crashes that are far more frequent than even a modded FO3, and the invisible walls that are far worse than any game I have ever played. I mean, really, why show a rock ledge for sniping and then have an invisible wall that stops you from getting on the ledge to do exactly what you are leading such a playstyle to do? If you don't want ranged players to snipe, don't put the weapons in the game at all, and don't show sniping locations at all. It's much better than having them be an illusion in the game.

I should also add the over the top spaghetti Western approach to the Vegas area and the West Coast in general (it isn't this way, and it wasn't this way in the 1950s, either... I used to visit grandparents in Boulder City every year on family vacations and we went by car and travelled all over, every state, west of the Mississippi). Of course, if you are a fan of such content, you'll be at home, but as some other players have said, the entire environment doesn't feel anywhere near as post-apocalpytic as the Capital Wasteland in FO3. To see one example of the problem, just consider the ads in the two games. FO3 had ads, billboards, etc that showed the hypocrisy of the "utopian" society that middle class America largely embraced after WWII (the illusion of which lived on later in popular sitcoms like Happy Days and Lavern & Shirley in the 1970s, and films like Back to the Future and Peggy Sue Got Married in the 1980s). FONV, in contrast, offers... casino ads? Cowboy ads? Huh?! Bethesda's writers understood the dark humor of such a setting and the irony of a "perfect" society self-destructing. Obsidian does not, obviously.

For that matter, consider the complete implausibility that a nuclear war around the world would leave Vegas and the Hoover Dam intact, and you can see that the entire foundation of the environment is ludicrous.

Even if you wanted to forgive all of this, the idea that humanity is barely surviving after a nuclear holocaust but you have all sorts of petty faction squabbling and power plays is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I cannot really care about any of the characters in FONV because none of them have any real depth or interest, with the possible exception of Veronica and Cass.

Want a true RPG in this type of setting? Well, a company would have to create an environment where cooperation was essential and the goal is to build alliances to simply survive. If this was not accomplished, the player would die, plain and simple, as well as any NPCs. Might be boring for some people due to lack of "action" but it would be far more of a roleplay environment than FONV offers.

One person here made a comment that FONV takes all the issues with FO3 and makes them even worse. No specific examples were offered, but as far as technical issues and game issues such as not supporting all play styles, particularly energy weapons and ranged combat, the comment is accurate (as well as the crashes, invisible walls, characters falling into textures, etc, of course).

There's nothing wrong with people liking this game, of course, and I am not saying there is. However, the people who find the many flaws in it are not looking for "casual mindless gaming." Just the opposite, in fact. I am an academic and anolyze games constantly, particularly good pedagogical tools such as Bethesda's products. I spend hundreds of hours in their games doing anolysis. This would not be "fun" for most people, but I enjoy it and that's how I play games. FONV might as well simply have a text list of locations to visit, quests to select, and (poor) rewards to receive. I stopped Skyrim to play FONV after all the DLC came out, but I'm having difficulty seeing how I can motivate myself to continue anolyzing a game with so many issues even after modding. Skyrim actually took some things from here such as the ludicrous AI behavior (oh, let's force all players to do melee encounters by having AI behave with human, psychic abilities, what a great idea!) However, do not try to claim that the game doesn't have these flaws or that it is in any way the last great RPG offered for modern gamers. That is simply ignoring the product and its actual content offering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

Sorry but that whole post is laughable, I don't you think you know what an RPG is.

Deserves more than that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBKr8YLuVgs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOYBWwmcXeg&feature=player_embedded#%21

(open four of those with one second intervals)

Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community. Name one other game from Bethesda that does not offer a complete guide with all DLC. In the mod community, even BOSS and Wrye Flash NV stopped being supported. As for the game itself... well, I have played RPGs since the original D&D and computer games since Spacewar on teletypes, and FONV simply isn't a very good RPG.

Before some here jump all over me, try getting past your own personal play preferences and consider that an RPG must allow player choice and be viable for all play styles. FONV, even worse than FO3, completely undermines energy weapons and ranged play styles. Skyrim faces the exact same problem, albeit with magic rather than energy weapons (and no EVE mod for magic kills).

Not to mention the constant crashes that are far more frequent than even a modded FO3, and the invisible walls that are far worse than any game I have ever played. I mean, really, why show a rock ledge for sniping and then have an invisible wall that stops you from getting on the ledge to do exactly what you are leading such a playstyle to do? If you don't want ranged players to snipe, don't put the weapons in the game at all, and don't show sniping locations at all. It's much better than having them be an illusion in the game.

I should also add the over the top spaghetti Western approach to the Vegas area and the West Coast in general (it isn't this way, and it wasn't this way in the 1950s, either... I used to visit grandparents in Boulder City every year on family vacations and we went by car and travelled all over, every state, west of the Mississippi). Of course, if you are a fan of such content, you'll be at home, but as some other players have said, the entire environment doesn't feel anywhere near as post-apocalpytic as the Capital Wasteland in FO3. To see one example of the problem, just consider the ads in the two games. FO3 had ads, billboards, etc that showed the hypocrisy of the "utopian" society that middle class America largely embraced after WWII (the illusion of which lived on later in popular sitcoms like Happy Days and Lavern & Shirley in the 1970s, and films like Back to the Future and Peggy Sue Got Married in the 1980s). FONV, in contrast, offers... casino ads? Cowboy ads? Huh?! Bethesda's writers understood the dark humor of such a setting and the irony of a "perfect" society self-destructing. Obsidian does not, obviously.

For that matter, consider the complete implausibility that a nuclear war around the world would leave Vegas and the Hoover Dam intact, and you can see that the entire foundation of the environment is ludicrous.

Even if you wanted to forgive all of this, the idea that humanity is barely surviving after a nuclear holocaust but you have all sorts of petty faction squabbling and power plays is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I cannot really care about any of the characters in FONV because none of them have any real depth or interest, with the possible exception of Veronica and Cass.

Want a true RPG in this type of setting? Well, a company would have to create an environment where cooperation was essential and the goal is to build alliances to simply survive. If this was not accomplished, the player would die, plain and simple, as well as any NPCs. Might be boring for some people due to lack of "action" but it would be far more of a roleplay environment than FONV offers.

One person here made a comment that FONV takes all the issues with FO3 and makes them even worse. No specific examples were offered, but as far as technical issues and game issues such as not supporting all play styles, particularly energy weapons and ranged combat, the comment is accurate (as well as the crashes, invisible walls, characters falling into textures, etc, of course).

There's nothing wrong with people liking this game, of course, and I am not saying there is. However, the people who find the many flaws in it are not looking for "casual mindless gaming." Just the opposite, in fact. I am an academic and anolyze games constantly, particularly good pedagogical tools such as Bethesda's products. I spend hundreds of hours in their games doing anolysis. This would not be "fun" for most people, but I enjoy it and that's how I play games. FONV might as well simply have a text list of locations to visit, quests to select, and (poor) rewards to receive. I stopped Skyrim to play FONV after all the DLC came out, but I'm having difficulty seeing how I can motivate myself to continue anolyzing a game with so many issues even after modding. Skyrim actually took some things from here such as the ludicrous AI behavior (oh, let's force all players to do melee encounters by having AI behave with human, psychic abilities, what a great idea!) However, do not try to claim that the game doesn't have these flaws or that it is in any way the last great RPG offered for modern gamers. That is simply ignoring the product and its actual content offering.

Hate to break the bubble that so many people seem to embrace, but FONV is not a good RPG nor was it very popular, even now, even amongst the mod community. Name one other game from Bethesda that does not offer a complete guide with all DLC. In the mod community, even BOSS and Wrye Flash NV stopped being supported. As for the game itself... well, I have played RPGs since the original D&D and computer games since Spacewar on teletypes, and FONV simply isn't a very good RPG.

Before some here jump all over me, try getting past your own personal play preferences and consider that an RPG must allow player choice and be viable for all play styles. FONV, even worse than FO3, completely undermines energy weapons and ranged play styles. Skyrim faces the exact same problem, albeit with magic rather than energy weapons (and no EVE mod for magic kills).

Not to mention the constant crashes that are far more frequent than even a modded FO3, and the invisible walls that are far worse than any game I have ever played. I mean, really, why show a rock ledge for sniping and then have an invisible wall that stops you from getting on the ledge to do exactly what you are leading such a playstyle to do? If you don't want ranged players to snipe, don't put the weapons in the game at all, and don't show sniping locations at all. It's much better than having them be an illusion in the game.

I should also add the over the top spaghetti Western approach to the Vegas area and the West Coast in general (it isn't this way, and it wasn't this way in the 1950s, either... I used to visit grandparents in Boulder City every year on family vacations and we went by car and travelled all over, every state, west of the Mississippi). Of course, if you are a fan of such content, you'll be at home, but as some other players have said, the entire environment doesn't feel anywhere near as post-apocalpytic as the Capital Wasteland in FO3. To see one example of the problem, just consider the ads in the two games. FO3 had ads, billboards, etc that showed the hypocrisy of the "utopian" society that middle class America largely embraced after WWII (the illusion of which lived on later in popular sitcoms like Happy Days and Lavern & Shirley in the 1970s, and films like Back to the Future and Peggy Sue Got Married in the 1980s). FONV, in contrast, offers... casino ads? Cowboy ads? Huh?! Bethesda's writers understood the dark humor of such a setting and the irony of a "perfect" society self-destructing. Obsidian does not, obviously.

For that matter, consider the complete implausibility that a nuclear war around the world would leave Vegas and the Hoover Dam intact, and you can see that the entire foundation of the environment is ludicrous.

Even if you wanted to forgive all of this, the idea that humanity is barely surviving after a nuclear holocaust but you have all sorts of petty faction squabbling and power plays is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I cannot really care about any of the characters in FONV because none of them have any real depth or interest, with the possible exception of Veronica and Cass.

One person here made a comment that FONV takes all the issues with FO3 and makes them even worse. No specific examples were offered, but as far as technical issues and game issues such as not supporting all play styles, particularly energy weapons and ranged combat, the comment is accurate (as well as the crashes, invisible walls, characters falling into textures, etc, of course).

There's nothing wrong with people liking this game, of course, and I am not saying there is. However, the people who find the many flaws in it are not looking for "casual mindless gaming." Just the opposite, in fact. I am an academic and anolyze games constantly, particularly good pedagogical tools such as Bethesda's products. I spend hundreds of hours in their games doing anolysis. This would not be "fun" for most people, but I enjoy it and that's how I play games. FONV might as well simply have a text list of locations to visit, quests to select, and (poor) rewards to receive. I stopped Skyrim to play FONV after all the DLC came out, but I'm having difficulty seeing how I can motivate myself to continue anolyzing a game with so many issues even after modding. Skyrim actually took some things from here such as the ludicrous AI behavior (oh, let's force all players to do melee encounters by having AI behave with human, psychic abilities, what a great idea!) However, do not try to claim that the game doesn't have these flaws or that it is in any way the last great RPG offered for modern gamers. That is simply ignoring the product and its actual content offering.