I wasn't saying it shouldn't be implemented. I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of the casual remarks.

I had NVs on for about 15 minutes before thinking it was boring and took it off. The bullets having weight made things interesting though.

I'm glad someone else is getting tired of "casual" scapegoating. Your post has made my day. Thank you.

Edit: I was quoting Hevnoraak but I guess I svck at quotes!

I think they hold some weight, as a company that wants to appeal to a broader audience might avoid implementing features like in the OP in order to avoid alienating more casual players, but fair enough.

I didn't like the way NV handled hardcoe mode either, but I did like that they added it in as an option for those who are into that sort of thing. I enjoy stuff like the Frostfall mod, but I hate mods where you have to eat/drink every few in-game hours. I think almost everyone would like to have the ability to build camps/bases/whatever though, and since it would be optional I don't see why they wouldn't want to add it. Variety is always good, and I think Bethesda should add a lot more options to the next TES game.

When did TES players become so elitist anyway?
We have a fantastic community here, yes. But, echoing everyone's favourite Dragon Priest, this business of "casual gamers" is just stupid. I dont know about you, but I play games to relax. Casually.
I can maybe understand in ultra competitive online games. But even then. I get very into races on Forza Motorsport, but I don't go yelling at the slower guys. They're just playing for fun, same as me.

In any case, I agree with Trannigan and Talaran.


I'd like a hardcoe mode. Well, I will have one when I get a PC in a month or so. But until then it doesn't bother me since all of my characters across TES games eat regularly, sleep, bathe and find shelter at night.

The thing that should have been done was they should have made a hardcoe mode like Fallout New Vegas had, that would be awesome, I'd be using it all the time.

I still don't get what is so "hardcoe" about getting text on the upper left "you are hungry", proceed to go into a menu, pick out of the hundreds of food items you can carry without restriction, "you are no longer hungry". It's more of a nuisance and it is really immersion breaking. Just another thing you have to pause the game for.

The thing that makes hardcoe mode in New Vegas "hardcoe" (if you want to call it that, I call it "what should be default") is that ammo has weight, stimpacks heal over time and everyone can die. In Skyrim that would maybe translate to weapon and armor degradation, weight on arrows, lockpicks, everything, etc. Potions and spells that heal over time. Skyrim has those. Maybe remove the essential status on NPCs, carry weight of 200, shops having less than 500 gold, more diseases (which are limited due to the absence of attributes) and a loot drop rate decreased by 90%.

I think it's just a difference of perspective. You play TES to relax, I play TES to visit another world. I want to be totally immersed, and I want to be challenged. I want to feel like I'm struggling to survive in a fantastic world like Nirn. Which in a way is how I relax after I come home from work everyday, but the difference lies in how we relax. I don't particularly have any issue with "casual" gamers, but I do take offense when my enjoyment is hampered by design decisions made to appease a different group.

I don't really know how to explain this, so I'll try to make a work anology and hope everyone can understand it instead. It's like I'm trying to design a high-performance jet powered aircraft, but the rest of the design team is working on a small propeller plane. Find a different design team/company you might say, but let's say the company I'm currently working with originally produced jet aircraft instead of propeller planes. They've begun shifting towards a different target consumer though, producing less complex aircraft for less hardcoe usage. I still love the company and jet aircraft though, so I try to push them and hope they go back in the direction I want them to. It's almost certainly not going to happen, but I feel like I have to try if I'm going to stay with the company I love so much.

I think I just made this whole situation more confusing with that anology, but there you go. I want Bethesda to stick to their roots, so I'll push against anything I perceive as a threat to "morrowind" style gameplay (although the combat in Skyrim is so much better). Sorry if I offend anyone, I have no personal qualms with any of you.

They didnt need to code it, it was already coded for FO NV, all they needed to do was teak it.

Bethesda knows their modding community, and builds a game knowing what fans will create. I know this does not help the console users. I've always thought that TES was a core game that fans then turned into their ultimate game. In a sense Bethesda provides the core game, and modders make the finished product.

For realism yes that would be good and so would a lot of other things (damage armour) (wounding) (less hack and slash) i could go on for ever but you get my drift, where would they begin.

Personally i would have been a whole lot happier without any of that if we had a bug free game without quest glitches that did not crash and freeze on average every hour and i suspect the vast majority of buyers would too.

I'm with you on wanting a return to Morrowind levels of choice, consequence and everything else that makes it my no.1 game of all time.
Also on the "living another life in another world" thing. That's what I meant by "relax". I come home from my crappy job, fire up the xbox and all of a sudden I'm travelling these awe-inspiring lands in the company of my Dunmer Mage/Nightblade/Spellsword/whatevercharacter. It's fantastic, and a wonderful way to calm down after a rubbish day.

What I, and a few others, were getting at is this blaming of everything on "casuals". The fact is, no TES game has felt "finished". They all have bugs, glitches, oversights and many other things. But we still play, and love, these games. Those with the means to do so fix the things they don't like with mods. If you don't have that luxury, you do what many of us do and deal with it.

People seem to forget that without these "casual" gamers, Skyrim wouldn't have been half the success (financially) it was. They are a good thing for the series in that they add money to Beth's coffers, which in turn leads to a higher budget for the next game.
The only thing we can hope for is that they listen to what the fans have to say and don't keep removing things from the games in future. If they do, well we still have the older games and mods for the newer ones.

Simple answer:

Because we're playing Skyrim, not The Sims.

At some point, it's going to become very tedious and boring. If we have to do all of that, then at what point do we need to routinely go to the bathroom? At what point will we need to begin bathing? Or laundering our clothes?

They have the mechanics in game for you to eat and drink if you so choose. And I certainly wouldn't be against a hardcoe Mode like Fallout: New Vegas had that incorporated that stuff (and would play it, like I did with Fallout: New Vegas), but the simple answer is that this isn't The Sims, and life management like eating, drinking, bathing, and going to the bathroom aren't what this game is about.

Is 11/11/11 and "casuals" the reason why Morrowind and Oblivion didn't have them either?

Or Daggerfall?

Seriously people...

Please tell me these posts are jokes. Otherwise...

I'll give you 3 guesses what studio made Fallout: New Vegas.

I'll even give you a hint: If you say "Bethesda", you're wrong.

Most probably; times are tough for everyone these days. Besides, we can do the "immersion" by ourselves, no need to be forced to eat, drink, sleep, whatever.

Even if New Vegas was developed by Obsidian, it still used the same engine as FO3. I could see hardcoe mode return in future Fallout games, as the survival aspect fits more into that universe rather than TES.

I agree with this, but there are notable limitations to modding in Skyrim (or so I'm told.) For instance, a lot of modders that have tried to completely rework the combat system say that the CK actually allows for less modification than Oblivion did. I don't know the name of it off the top of my head, but there was one prominent Oblivion combat overhaul that simply could not be created for Skyrim due to limitations with the Creation Kit. I've only done a few tiny mods, so I don't really know the details, but from what I've heard from other modders this game is less open to modding than Oblivion and Morrowind were. The difference here is that while mods can't be as complex/change the game as much, they can reach a wider audience via steam workshop.

Since we're on the topic, can anyone recommend any good mods to make this game more Morrowind-esque in terms of enemy and equipment leveling? I haven't really delved deeply into that section of modding yet, as I've heard most of the good ones are completely incompatible with most of the mods I currently use.

True, but I feel an optional gameplay mechanic would be much better. I wish there were an option to enable things like Dead-is-Dead gameplay. I play that way, but I must admit of my twelve characters to date, four of them have died a dozen times over but I just can't bring myself to stop playing them. I wish the game would just force me to stop, since I just end up with a tremendous amount of guilt for cheating death on those characters.

im pretty sure that their was a interview with Todd on about this exact thing that after the success of fallout new vegas's survival mode would they be one in skyrim an i think he said that they wouldnt because he wanted the game to appeal to a mass audience.

i could be wrong though ill try an find it on youtube

Anyway, so much food around you would have to work hard to starve, Zaria catch an salmon and eat it. Even the old ruins are filled with fresh food.

I use an mod who add needs, yes its only for immersion only and I tend to carry way to much food, it usually have an decent disease chance if eating raw food, but I turned it down as it's unrealistic high at least for an Khajiit. Fun that you can drink from rivers and lakes.

Sleeping require sleeping bags/ movable bedrolls as anybody out in the wilderness in real world has one.

Doesn't svck for me. I love Skyrim as is. It is my favorite of the Elder Scrolls series, and my favorite game of all time. And when I do get it on PC in the not too distant future (probably with Legendary Edition), I won't be doing any extensive modding, if any modding at all. I have never really needed, nor desired, mods for my Elder Scrolls games. I only use a very select few that do rather small time changes with Morrowind and Oblivion already.

Also, while I agree that a "hardcoe Mode" as an option would be a good thing for the series, and an option I would use, there is nothing "casual" about Skyrim, or any other Elder Scrolls game for that matter. I wish people would take "casual", "casualization", and "dumbing down" out of their vocabulary, because not only is it 100% false, but it is also elitist, insulting, and condescending.

Coded for Fallout: New Vegas - that Obsisdian made. Not Bethesda.

Bethesda had 0% to do with the development of Fallout: New Vegas. People need to understand this.

I thought it was pretty clear, at least in my case, that we were joking.
Or, more accurately, depriving others of the joy they seem to get out of blaming 11/11/11 and "casuals".

What term would you use to refer to the ongoing simplification of the series then? Complexity is slowly being removed from the game in favor of simplicity, and while this has improved some aspects of the game (notably combat) it has had a negative impact on many others.

For instance, the removal of spellmaking has drastically reduced the variety and utility of magic spells in general. You can no longer tailor spells to your use, or combine spells to perform entirely new functions. I don't see how this could be a good thing to anyone. The only reason, even from a business standpoint, that I can think of would be to prevent the system from confusing some players. It has been a signature of magic gameplay in TES for ages.

I'm not trying to turn this into a spellmaking argument (not that there really is one) but that's one example of how the game has been 'dumbed down' or 'simplified'. I don't blame "casuals" for this, but it is certainly a negative trend towards producing a less complex game. "Dumbing down" is perhaps the most fitting word for the situation, although I agree that "casualization" is a term better left in the past.

I don't think most of the people here believe that Bethesda made NV, but the system in place within New Vegas certainly provides an example of how the current engine could easily include a system like the OP was wanting.

Needing to eat has never been a requirement in TES - FACT

Skyrim has -THE- most extensive list of foodstuffs ever in TES + Cooking - FACT

"hardcoe mode" was extensively requested prior to Skyrims release and in many instances in the past -FACT

Implementing such a feature would take time and energy - FACT

"hardcoe mode" has been shown to be possible on an iteration of the same engine used in Skyrim - FACT

"casuals" aka the "Target audience" wouldn't really care for such features - FACT

Many features suffered from the 11/11/11 date set just over a year earlier - FACT

Its not scapegoating, just being realistic.

This. ^

This. ^^

This. ^^^

Wasn't even a feature in Fallout 3 and was optional in New Vegas.