That's true, but it's frankly a pathetic argument.

As far as I know, sprinting was never a part of TES. Until it was. Just because a feature hasn't been introduced yet doesn't mean it shouldn't... I mean I love Morrowind more than any other game, but I don't want every TES game that comes out to be identical to it. The series needs to evolve, but in the right direction. We might disagree on what that direction is, but saying something shouldn't be part of the game because it hasn't been in the past is just silly!

That's not my argument. My argument is that it's never been, so it's not a result of the "casualization" of The Elder Scrolls series. I don't care if it's in or not, and so far, neither has BGS because they haven't used up their development time to implement it so far.

Exactly, it wasnt in FO 3, but it was in NV, and it was optional, so there is no reason t be against it, if one guy can create a good mode for survival on the nexus within a few months, it should be a piece of cake for beth to make an OPTIONAL survival mode.

True but this isn't Fallout like some others are saying. Go play each game starting with arena and then come back and tell us why they still don't have that.

Although carrying around thirty million plus arrows kind of makes no sense.

Well this has never been in the series to begin with so I don't know why anyone would expect it.

The worst company to ever handle a PS3 title, Obsidian Entertainment. They may be dreadfully awful at their job but they had a hardcoe mode which was good.

Because it is a good edition to the game. Two mods are out there that do that very thing, Frost Fall and Realistic Needs and Diseases. Makes the game much better. Skooma actrually has an efect, drinking too much has an effect, eating too much will make you feel sick and move slow. And you can freeze to death. Implementing something like this would not be a mandatory thing, if you didnt like it you wouldnt have to use it. More options is ALWAYS better, and being against something optional is just ridiculous.

Not to mention they were using Bethesdas system, so it would have been simple for beth to use what was already developed and improve on it.

The same reason why Sprinting/Dual wielding/Shield Bashing was never in the series but was REQUESTED and was delievered.

Exactly, a survival mode would be fantastic for ALL platforms, not like it would be too demanding, especially with the new gen of consoles.

I agree there should be more. I'd hope that they would one day add the type of things that I consider hardcoe too, though I have strong doubts.

This.

A less complex game is not automatically a worse game. Complexity for the sake of complexity is not a good thing.

Personally I like the "casualization" of Skyrim, because it helps me getting immersed in the world and see it through the eyes of my character.

Overly complex game mechanics instead prevent this - some part of my mind always has to stay in meta-gaming and calculator mode.

I may have misquoted you. I went back and just clicked "Multi Quote" on everything I saw with "casuals" and "11/11/11"

I wouldn't say complexity is being removed at all. I would say that in certain areas, Bethesda has taken a different approach to handling certain aspects.

There are less skills, but each skill is way more in depth and complex, and gives you more choice.

Attributes have been removed, but their function has been moved to the Perks system.

Spellmaking was removed, but we got a new gameplay mechanic for casting spells which allows us new things that weren't otherwise possible.

Equipment repair was removed, but we got a fully fleshed out crafting system that allows us to create our own weapons and armor.

Skills like Athletics and Acrobatics were removed, but skills like Enchanting or Pickpocketing were returned to the game.

The "dumbed down" or "casualization" argument only focuses on the things that were removed from the game, but fail to acknowledge all of the things that were added to the game.

I would not say these games are becoming less complex at all. I would say they are becoming less needlessly tedious. But not complex.

Tedium is not challenging, it is not deep, it is not smart. It is tedious, nothing more. Tons of things from Morrowind that are considered "deep" are really nothing more than tedious.

Oh, and I'm not some "new player" or "casual". I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind released in 2003. Elder Scrolls is my favorite game series ever, and Morrowind was my favorite game of all time until Skyrim came out a couple years ago. Skyrim, Morrowind, and Oblivion make up my top 3 all time games.

Or what this guy said as well. Truth in this as well.

Things like spell making were completely optional, you didnt have to do it, so if you didnt want the "tedium" you didnt have to do it. More options is always better. No matter which way you twist it. If you didnt want to do a hardcoe mode, you turn it off. simple, if you didnt want to spell make, you didnt do it, simple. And yes, they are reducing the game to bare bones, a perfect example is the removal of mysticism athletics acrobatics and hand to hand. Pickpocket was part of security and was always there, and same with enchanting, was always there as well. The only NEW thing that Skyrim brought to the table was smithing, dual casting, and sprint. The amount of things removed FAR outweighs the things added. Athletics rewarded people for not fast traveling, now, there is no reward, everyone runs the same speed, unless you rely on mods. Fact is they are removing things that belong in TES indefinitely, and are a big part of the lore as well. But apparently, to you, thats ok.

Its better to build on what they have, refine it, and perfect it, instead of removing a ton of stuff, refining a few things, and adding a minor amount of things.

They've also added a ton of activities that quite frankly should have been there a long time ago like chopping wood, mining ore, cooking, building homes, etc.

Building homes was part of a DLC, not in the original game. They had homes that you could get through dlc before, but you couldnt build them. Mining ore and chopping wood are there specifically for smithing. Cooking served no purpose, none, what so ever. If they would have implemented an OPTIONAL survival mode, then cooking would have been great. I downloaded a mod that requires me to eat sleep and drink, and adds effects to all alcohols and skooma, now it actually has a point. Almost ALL aspects of this game would have complimented a survival mode. Wood chopping - building camp fires and tent frames. Smithing - building tents and bed rolls. Cooking - Well i think its obvious how that would compliment a survival mode.

It's there for RP brah, so yes, it serves a purpose. This is a role playing game. Who cares if mining ore is there for smithing? It's still a side activity. More options, not less. Please stop trying to remove RPG from my game. I guess you really don't care.

i would have hated to do all of that... eating strategically placed meals. maybe if the hade a "hardcoe mode" similar to new vegas. would be perfect. although you could use mods to accomplish the immersiveness that you want.

As hevnoraak said, quit with the blaming on casuals guys, this has never been a part of tes, though a hardcoe mode would be nice

That was probably one of the main reasons, a hardcoe mode being something that would only appeal to the most hardcoe of gamers, effectively being a "waste of resources" for some who have little interest in such a feature, like perhaps many of the people at Bethesda themselves. I'm sure it was considered for inclusion more than once, however.

The lack of a hardcoe mode isn't quite "casualization," that is true, though the removal of lunar based transformations for werewolves, the "backwards feeding" mechanics for vampires and the outright removal of sun damage for vampires were all done in order to make the game friendlier for the current market. The latter is confirmed true by the developers of Skyrim themselves, and I don't think it is necessarily because they wanted to appeal to a "wider audience" per say, but because they develop games they want to play themselves (Todd Howard actually said something like that once), and I don't think the developers are all that hardcoe themselves, which is possibly why they could care less for stuff like item degradation and a hardcoe mode. There are differing levels of hardcoe.

I was running around Daggerfall City and not paying any attention to my character's fatigue. His fatigue fell to 0. He fell unconscious. Something killed him while he was unconscious.

I didn't say Spellmaking was tedious. I said that in it's place, we got an all new spell casting mechanic. Don't like it as much as Spellmaking? Completely valid opinion. But saying it was "removed for no reason other than to 'dumb down' to 'appeal to casuals'" is completely wrong. Spellmaking wasn't removed without a replacement. In many ways, dual casting replicates Spellmaking. Not 100% no, but it replicates many of the elements of Spellmaking.

Mysticism, and Hand to Hand in particular were not removed. Many of the Mysticism spell effects are still in the game. They are just in different schools such as Alteration (Telekinesis and Detect Life) or Conjuration (Soul Trap). Others, such as Absorb Magicka, are perks, or represented in the game through other spells. Ward spells, with a specific perk, are the exact replication of the Absorb Magicka effect.

Hand to Hand actually has perks for it (albeit in the wrong skill, I agree with that), and has entire segments of major questlines dedicated to it, where you have to proceed via Hand to Hand.

Athletics was removed in the form of a skill, but is represented through the Stamina skill that you increase or not, allowing you to spring farther. Not an exact replica of Athletics, no, but another method of accomplishing the same goal - getting to a destination on foot faster. Also, I didn't fast travel in Oblivion, but I felt the Athletics skill was a punishment, not a reward. It leveled beyond my control, and made my character faster than I wanted him to be, without any control on my end. I hate the Athletics skill, and tire of it constantly increasing for no other reason than I didn't fast travel.

Acrobatics was removed with no replacement, yes, and in my opinion, good riddance. Same deal as Athletics in my book.

Enchanting was removed from the game as a skill in Oblivion. If you claim that Pickpocket and Enchanting skills were "always" in Elder Scrolls, then Mysticism, Hand to Hand, Athletics, and the effects of Attributes that are now done differently, are still in Skyrim.

The fact that you say that "Smithing, dual casting, and sprinting" are the ONLY new things that Skyrim brings to the table proves exactly what I said, that people who play the "dumbed down" card only look at what was removed, not at what was added.

Things that weren't in Oblivion or Morrowind that are now in Skyrim:

-Smithing

-Enchanting (in Morrowind, removed as a skill in Oblivion)

-Pickpocket (didn't exist as a skill in Morrowind or Oblivion)

-chopping wood

-mining ore and materials for smithing

-Dual Wielding / Dual casting

-Marriage

-Home building

-Carriages (an equivalent existed in Morrowind, not in Oblivion)

-Cooking

-Various spell effects and methods of casting spells

^ That's just off the top of my head. Unfortunately I'm on break at work and don't have time to look even deeper at all the things Skyrim added.

All spell effects that are in skyrim are and were in oblivion and in morrowind. Mining is part of smithing, just like picking plants is part of alchemy. Just because YOU dont like something, doesnt mean it should be taken out. More options are always better, no matter how you twist it. You DONT have to use those options, but other people WOULD like to use those options, the game does not revolve around YOU and people that like to play like you, it is supposed to appeal to a maximum amount of player types. Dual casting DOES NOt replace spell creation, nor is it ANYWHERE near spell creation. Not even close.

Didyou even read what I wrote, I said multiple times that more is better. RP does not equal imagination, if that were the case, then we could just read the dragonborn book at the beginning and all imagine the whole game.

Console players CANNOt enjoy mods, so an optional system for survival that would have complimented all the new things we got in this game would have been easy peasy to implement.

If you want to appeal to a mass or bigger audience, you put MORE options in the game, not less. By putting less options and RP possibilities, you are automatically alienating certain player bases. More is better.

I don't have to imagine cooking. It's there in the game.