I would assume the super mutants with mush for brains woudl still have mush for brains.

Wow, I didn't read all of the posts but most on the first page didn't get it correct. There are two reasons, stated specifically in the series - in Fo4 too:

1) Most of ghouls represent a direct threat to the BoS - yes, the feral ghouls. And even non-hostile ghouls can go feral at a given moment.

2) The more important reason why: they - like mutants and synths - represent everything that was wrong with pre-war society in the BoS view/codex. Eliminating them, feral or friendly, is removing a direct reminder of when humanity went wrong.

- - - There are other reasons too, but these are chief among them.

From his terminal it seemed like he was still progressing into becoming a super mutant...

I really hope that's non-canon though for several reasons. One being that I can't imagine someone reverting because of the significant alterations to.. everything. Two being that is seems like they're setting a precedence for the next game including werewolf super mutant transformations and a magical potion to revert to normal or a vampire ghoul transformation.

It's bad enough that the SS can get a potion to halt the aging process

.

Hmmm, had not met that particular individuals in Goodneighbor, so I cannot comment on what his lines seem to mean. There was a whole "Ghoul city" in FO3, and while I haven't played that game for a long time, I do have a few memories that I am confident about.

1. Ghouls are just people who have been physically altered by exposure to radiation. A consequence of this is that they live for a long time and are effectively immune to radiation (right?).

Some have stated that transformation into a ghoul is dependent on both exposure to radiation and a 'pre-dose' of at least a small amount of the FE virus. I cannot confirm or deny that, and it might well have changed in the lore between 2 and 4.

Others have stated that they are sterile. I'm also not sure on that point. It would make sense if some or all of them are, radiation tends to damage fertility in real life too, but I'm not sure.

Someone stated that, in one of the games, there was a bit of narrative about the "suffering of the ghouls" and a sense that they are in pain all the time, and that this state of constant physical pain (as well as social alienation?) is part of what contributes to their "decline" into feral ghoul status.

I am not familiar with that argument and while it might be the case that some NPCs in FO2 "said" it, it doesn't exactly jibe with the way non-ferals are otherwise portrayed in FO3, NV and 4.

2. There is an idea that non-feral ghouls can transform into ferals. I'm not unfamiliar with this idea, but I'm not sure how much evidence there is in game to back up such an idea, nor how often it is stated to happen. My sense was that it happens very rarely and only under exceptional circumstances, such as an additional exposure to large amounts of radiation.

Naturally some of the most prejudicial in the Brotherhood might argue that this is a real risk and that is happens all the time, but again, just because NPCs in the game say something doesn't make it true. Can anyone think of a single example from any of the games where an NPC transforms from a normal ghoul into a feral?

3. Some have stated that "99% of ghouls are feral." I don't think there is any basis to reach such a conclusion. Certainly in the course of playing the game, one encounters a lot more "feral ghouls" than "non-feral."

Even if it is true, what difference does it make? Non-ferals are still distinct from ferals, and the term "feral" might be misleading. I don't have the sense that some of you have that, "being feral" is a result of "losing one's domestication" in the same sense that cats and dogs who are left outdoors will "go feral." Going feral in my understanding is primarily a result of exposure to large amounts of radiation and/or individual 'vulnerability' factors. Three normal humans might get exposed to equivalent doses of radiation, one doesn't noticeably change, but is now detectable as a "Wastelander" by BoS or Institute tests, another gets transformed into a ghoul, the third gets transformed into a feral ghoul.

4. This last point I'm less sure on, but I had the sense that virtually every ghoul in existence (feral and non-feral) was 'created' long ago, if not at the time of the war. However, if this is not the case, then there is even less basis to discriminate against non-ferals, because what it means is that any "normal human" Wastelander could at some point, owing to either exposure to radiation and/or vulnerability factors get transformed into a ghoul if not a feral ghoul.

1.) more Brotherhood lies. havent seen non hostile ghouls "go feral" in the game and never heard anyone talk about it. perfect example of a doctrine created out of fear.

2.) Reminders serve a purpose. Removing them is akin to burning history books, because they are also a direct reminder of exactly when and how humanity went wrong. and they don't even represent "everything that was wrong with pre-war society"... what about drugs, gangs, [censored] and murder? Human raiders? They were part of the pre-war society and are still very much in existence, yet they aren't even in the BoS crosshairs.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying the actions are justified, merely that these are the justifications that the BoS stands by/provides.

As for the Brotherhood lies, ghouls have commented on this as well. It's more than just the BoS that says this happens.

We know that ghouls are still being created, in some cases created instantly from regular folks (Camp Searchlight).

really? Because their have been cases of children turning feral from living in the wilderness with no human interaction and it would make sense that these are just people with extended lifespans in the wild for 200 years.

I've been trying to understand the BOS ever since the first games. I've always been intrigued by their goals and purpose. However, the best, and most accurate explanation offered in this thread, was the fact that they want to preserve the purity of the human race similar to the Aryan mentality. That's why they asked you if you slept with other races when you join. I don't remember such a strong xenophobia in previous games, I felt they really ramped it up in FO4 and went for the full no-tolerance policy this time. Whether that mentality was always in place, or it was intensified by Elder Maxson, I'm not sure because I haven't played a save where I sided with them completely.

I think their goals are a lot darker than just security, non hostile ghouls turning feral is clearly not a big enough issue for it to be a cause for concern or justification to eliminate them. They not only want to save humanity, they want to reshape it.

Ah okay!

I can confirm what he said about the "brain rot" resulting from radiation being the mechanism for "going feral" not just 'being out in the wild.' I think this reflects two different meanings of the term "feral."

The 'feral' children you are talking about (as well as what happens to domesticated animals that are left out and have to fend for themselves) exemplify definition #2, reverting to a wild state.

The "feral ghouls" exemplify definition #3, ferocious, brutal. I was never under the impression that they are called "feral" because they have changed as a result of being alienated or wandering in the Wasteland alone. They just got exposed to radiation and/or had vulnerability factors that made even a relatively small dose of radiation affect them profoundly.

People who are saying sentient ghouls aren't a threat because they aren't feral are willfully ignoring canon examples of ghouls randomly turning feral. You are wrong. Cope with that.

But what about the people who are saying that ghouls are not a special and particular threat because regular people can a) also kill other people without warning and turn instantly into feral ghouls themselves?

Exactly how many examples do we have of regular ghouls turning feral in a community? Which canon examples are you referring to?

Yeah ghouls (game) and feral children (real life) aren't remotely the same thing the feral tag for ghouls is just meant to identify those ghouls for who the rotting of the body has reached the brain......so all those poor Irradiated ferals are actually brain damaged humans, feel bad don't you!

Pretty much.......the Brotherhood is clearly modeled on the Militant Orders from the times of the Crusades.

I'm not sure how or why certain ghouls become ferals has ever canonised, its assumed by the Fallout population that it does happen but I don't recall anybody ever providing any proof.....perhaps because in cases where it happened any witnesses to the event might not have survived or perhaps because nobody actually knows beyond the non feral ghouls and they have never been forthcoming on the subject.

So in the Brotherhood's case there belief that all ghouls eventually turn feral is actually common knowledge, it might be totally wrong but they are among pretty much everybody for who this is common knowledge rather than any unique bias on their part.

However there is a example from a computer at one of the settlements, that only one ghouls created by the Great War was non feral and that the rest turned feral straight away. Is this an isolated event or the usual pattern, if so it would explain why there are so many more feral ghouls to ordinary ghouls.

Which would suggest that the commonly held belief might be totally wrong, but even if this is true, it doesn't appear to be common knowledge.

Can you remember more details about those examples?

I'm not "willfully ignoring" I'm just not aware of such examples. Are you saying that you are aware of such examples and can point us to them in reference material for the lore? Or are you just unable to cope with the idea that you might have been mislead by NPCs into believing something for which you too have never been provided incontrovertible factual data on frequency much less any examples?

go to the slog and ask wiseman about diamond city. He straight up tells you what happened.

"The slog?" "Wiseman?"

ADDIT: Ah okay! I'll check that out

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Slog

Any reason you can't straight up tell me?

The slog is a settlement of ghouls who were kicked out of diamond city after a ghoul went feral and attacked someone

Nathair typing on my phone is slow and difficult

If this is true than how do you explain Jason Bright, a goul in New Vegas who soaked up enough radiation to make him turn bright green and glow, even his head glows which must mean his brain is also highly irradiated while other feral gouls do not all have enough exposure to radiation to glow green? is it all just random chance that the radiation will negatively affect your brain while their is a chance that no matter how irradiated your brain gets you will never turn feral?

Given time, all ghouls will become feral. The brains of ghouls rot. Just become some rot remarkably slower doesn't mean they aren't rotting.

The walking timebomb is definitely a legitimate argument.

So it would appear that Fallout 4 actually gives us examples of both the ghouls become feral immediately upon becoming a ghoul and also turning feral over time.

Absolutely, and of course, we could even deduce that without any examples by virtue of what a ghoul is. A human being who, due to radiation, is going through a process of rotting physically and mentally. Feral ghouls, for whatever reason, had their brains rot at an accelerated pace. Normal ghouls are only normal for X amount of time. Even though this is the future, it seems that MRI technology and what-not have vanished. As such, there's no damn way to tell when X time is up and a ghoul becomes feral.

So your canon list of ghouls that suddenly went feral over the last two hundred years, the list that proves how wrong we are and how dangerous ghouls are is... one incident?

Not exactly a ticking time bomb, are they?