Obviously if you buy into the RR propaganda you think they are all good people and synths are innocent angels, but don't overlook their violent methods.

The minutemen are the only one I would probably concede your point, but they are just starting up from near extinction with single-handed help from the sole survivor, it may or may not turn to be canon. But we all know how long idealistic people tend to last in the wasteland.

Still waiting patiently.

Because they ugly.

I love the BoS now, they have returned to their roots of purging the heretics..er the abominations. I immensely disliked their portrayal of "goody-two shoes" faction in FO3. Fallout series much like the Elder Scrolls have always been about ambiguity and morally grey factions. There is nothing black and white, and "truths" depend on who does the interpretation.

From what I understand of ghouls from the Fallout Lore, it is reasonable to assume a ghoul will turn Feral in a matter of time. Everything on them is decaying, and considering their prolonged life, it would seem that non-feral ghouls simply mutated in such away, that makes the radiation simply progress at a slower rate. However, it is also a reasonable assumption that non-feral ghouls, got lucky, and their DNA mutated in such away that made them immune to radiation and did not turn them feral, and the radiation is no longer eating away at them. No matter, the fact remains, considering how little anyone really knows, is letting them live worth the risk?

Very much so. Ghouls are basically walking time bombs, and I would assume only a very very small percentage of the 'sane' ones can get lucky and retain their humanity for longer than usual. Most will degenerate and turn feral, and that's why any real life comparison to race or ethnicity is particularly hilarious.

Shoot the zombies in the head.

If I got ghoul'd up I'd want a shotgun to the head and my head and brains in little pieces. Or perhaps a laser gun turning me to dust incase I'm somehow still alive with a blown up and off head.

People apply IRL values and stuff to games, IT'S NOT US. They outright say it's and off shoot and history went down differently. Pre war values were different and survial values are just that survial values where pretty words are useless, annoying and even dangerous. They seem to be just now begining to get some rebuilding going where they have a ready supply of water and power in diamond city for example.

Part of that was creative and tech limitations on devs but it's progressed in this way. For all we know in the next fallout the min men will be said to have fell apart when their General vanished into the wastes, or something. Heck they could do a dlc where it falls apart.

It's not a pleasant place and they don't try to make it so, are people so limited they have to try to make it like life?

I'll measure a Ghoul by his merits.

And a Synth by taking a look at their programming and combing it.

Well, you know what they say. One man's freedom fighter, is another man's terrorist.

I haven't finished playing but it sounds like they do not. My point is that I hear BOS refer to them in a derogatory manner as if they should be put down. The ones at the gate threatened my follower. And why can't a non-feral ghoul be a BOS member?

Also to the posts saying they could degenerate into feral at any minute, some of them are two centuries old. So maybe it will happen eventually but that is a long time.

That's still a lot different from being literally created to catch runaway thralls and murder anyone your makers aim you at, for whatever petty reason they can think up. Or being created specifically to take someone's place (probably after a Courser murders that someone) and knowingly maintain a facade for as long as it is required by your makers.

I think the BoS are racists in a broader sense, that means they despise different "beings" for some reasons. It's only implied in the game but when you look at real humans you get the point. There is an abundance of racism and genocide in the human history and it comes in several forms. You don't need a totally weird ideology and/or powerful ruler (like in Nazism), it can be also a peoples movement like in Ruanda 1994 where in a few months between 500.000 and one million people were murdered, a "performance" for which the Nazis would be jealous. Or take the west coast of the USA in the 1850s where a lot of small genocides were committed by white miners and settlers against Indian groups, greatly reducing the "annoying" native population. You find racism and genocidal behaviour in nearly all human groups at one time or the other.

In a harsh and unforgiving environment like the post-nuclear wastelands the lure to follow simple ideologies and to protect yourself against real or imagined threats with extreme measures must be great. Humans tend to radicalize when they feel danger. It would be a surprise if the BoS would make differences between ghoul forms. They don't make differences between Synths although there must be a lot of nice guys and gals among the artificial humans.

They do hate them, i had Hancock with me when i visited Maxson and he is completely disappointed with me and i shouldn't be associating with them at all.

Hmm, doesn't it really depend on how ghouls "work"?

Is the going feral random or triggered?

Are there any warning signs (hitherto unnoticed) or is it completely unpredictable?

Does the chance of turning rise continiously throughout a ghouls life, does it stay the same or does it even drop?

Things like that.

I would like to point out, that even in society today, we do isolate individuals, we have reason to suspect could be dangerous to others.

Do ghouls fall in that category? Should they definately(they have a much higher risk of hurting others than regular humans)? Shouldn't they (they have a much lower risk of hurting others than regular humans)?

I don't really know... arguments could be made for either side...

Why does BOS hate ghouls?

Because!

Really though why wouldn't they, every feral ghoul running about try to kill everything that moves was once an ordinary ghoul so that is one strike against them. They are lets face it rotting mobile corpses so having any interaction with them in real life would be pretty disgusting and many of those ghouls are pre-war and from the BOS point of view, that would be the people to blame for nearly wiping out humanity.

As for Super Mutants and Synths.......everybody hates Super Mutants on the East Coast as there are literally only a tiny number who aren't genocidal mass murderers so not hating them would be pretty idiotic. Snyths, also lets face it for most of the story and in the minds of 99% of the population are only known as hostile killers and infiltrators who generally kill and replace humans, so why wouldn't they hate them. They also represent technology theatening the existence of Humanity again, sort of the Brotherhoods mantra.

The Nazi comparisons are frankly a little sickening and it cheapens the memory of their victims to try to described the BOS that way.

The BoS' views on Ghouls, Super Mutants, and Synths is that they are all perversions of humanity born from the abuse of technology. As they are such an abuse, their very existence is an afront to everything the Brotherhood stands for -- according to Maxson, anyway. To them, these things are deserving of death for merely existing, and their ideal Commonwealth would see all of them dead and buried.

I already explained why.

Because ghouls can turn feral at any time.

People like to say they show signs of degradation because of old, retconned lore. The ghoul in Diamond City proves otherwise. So does Billy the Boy Ghoul.

It just happens. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

It just wouldn't be good Science Fiction without clear cases of Racism and those that support, oppose, try to change, or fight for or against it.

Lore wise Ghouls are thought to go feral over time but the manner in which that happens hasn't been clearly defined. So how far are people willing to go to accept a potential race of homicidal maniacs...That's a good story waiting to happen, although it could be argued that Bethsada already showcased that with Tenpenny Tower story in Fallout 3.

Also ghouls and the story opportunities surrounding them seem to be under utilized as ghouls were or were supposed to be people that were alive from before the War and very well could present amazing story teller device to compare and contrast the past to what we have today.

I'd like to see more about Ghouls because they are a major part of the series and I want more than just a oh ya we're all either racist or we finally get along...Nope I want to see it played up as opposed to a head nod at ghouls.

Lets not also forget that being recruited into the Brotherhood also adds you to their gene pool, recruiting non-humans doesn't help in the long run survival and stability of the Brotherhood.

Let's not set up any strawmen about RR motivations, OK? And let's not change the subject. You claimed that all faction are in it for their own gain. That they employ violent methods has absolutely nothing to do with the question. Besides, in the Commonwealth wasteland farmers growing tatos employ violent methods. It's the nature of the environment.

Idealistic people shape the wasteland. I offer every single Vault Dweller as an example. Not to mention folks like Tandi and James and etc. etc.

Cynicism isn't actually an argument.

Pretty much true

When I first encountered ghouls, I believe it was in the pub in Megaton FO3? (forget if there was such a thing in FO2) my first honest reaction was trepidation and caution. If I recall, the character in question (might have been the bartender?) explained "what he was" and this was elaborated on by additional experiences with other "ghouls" in the Wasteland, some time thereafter qualified by the realization of the thing known as "ferals."

They look different, they look ghastly, so it is understandable that anyone might have an initial reaction of caution if not fear or even animosity.

But beyond that, the game(s) seem to have done a 'good' job of NOT giving anyone any excuse to discriminate against ghouls. Ferals as far as I've seen are basically NEVER easily confused as non-ferals (at least not any more than "Raiders" are easily confused as non-Raiders). There also doesn't seem to be a real problem with "normal" ghouls slowly transforming into ferals or being at risk of doing so. Seems like there was one quest in FO3 that explored that theme, but it was a special circumstance.

So, to the extent that the BoS actually does discriminate against non-feral ghouls, and regards them as legitimate targets for unprovoked violence, yes I think it cannot be described as anything except genocidal racism.

One other thing: I don't think of "non-feral" ghouls as being "sick" so much as "transformed." As far as I can tell, they are no less healthy than anyone else, they eat, they sleep, maybe they even procreate, certainly they seem to experience all the standard human/mammalian psychological states (curiosity, fear, affection, disgust, friendship, etc., etc.). Moreover, they live seemingly forever.

Feral ghouls are definitely "sick" both physically and mentally, but non-ferals, I get the impression they are at least as "healthy" as other humans if not moreso. Perhaps there is some "cure" for the condition they are in, but I don't recall it ever being mentioned in the games.

I wasn't sure on this. Is it clear in the lore that "non-ferals transforming into ferals over time or being at risk of doing so" IS a real thing in the game? It might well be that we are led to believe as much from a couple bigots in the games, but in the absence of confirmed cases of it happening, shouldn't we dismiss such rumors just on the basis of how many decent "normal" ghouls we get to interact with?

I think the whole "Synth rampages" thing is also meant to be ambiguous. To avoid spoilers I'll be vague but . . . as far as I've found so far, there is only ONE fully accounted instance of a synth that had "infiltrated" a human settlement going on a murdering rampage. In that instance, it might well have just been "an individual" going psychotic, and not a result of the machinations of the Institute . . . not far enough along on the Institute quest line to have clarity on this issue, but so far I'm seeing all the fears about Synths being "the enemy among us" as being more rumor than anything else.

There are also some things we learn of in game that lead us to conclude that, the "Institute" (or at least individuals, if not "Synths" that might be confused as being representatives of the Institute) has on numerous past occasions gone into villages and massacred. But again, the specifics are unclear. Without getting further into the storyline, I'm still actually withholding judgement of the "Institute" (whatever it actually "is") as being an evil boogeyman.

Most of what I could say has already been said before, but... to all the people on here saying that the reason why it's okay for the BOS to hate ghouls is because all these (feral) ghouls keep trying to kill them... I don't know about your game, but in mine, the majority of humans are trying to kill me too. So... should we kill every human we think might become a raider? Or who might turn into a ruthless mercenary? Or who has PTSD or mental issues or a rough childhood and might snap one day because of it? Because that could probably be said about nearly every person in the game.

The world of Fallout is a dangerous one. Seems to me the people in it use ghouls as one of many convenient scapegoats. It's easier to blame the 'other' (be it another race/religion or ghouls/synths etc.) than to examine the society you live in and work to make it better. The fact that the BOS uses fancy language to justify their hatred doesn't make them any different.