I don't understand the hate BOS has for non-feral ghouls. Sure I can see their hate for Super Mutes, feral ghouls, and possibly synths (I imagine routed in distrust although it is mind-boggling they wouldn't want the tech), but why hate people who were ghoulified through no fault of their own and yet still maintain their humanity? I was thinking about siding with them until one of them at the gate mentioned something awful about a ghoul follower traveling with me.

I like the fact that all the factions are grey but it feels like besides the minute men, you got one sort of ok faction if you don't want to be a total jerk and then two Caesar Legion jerkness level factions to choose from.

Because ghouls are so mutated that they can't even be considered human anymore.

I don't blame the BoS.

No, this isn't a case of racism, This isn't white people versus black people versus gay people versus transgender people... This might as well be a case of a second species challenging the status of humanity. And they could be and should be put down at every corner and ultimately eradicated.

They don't hate non-Ferals. They feel sorry for them. They hate Ferals. And if the BoS could reverse FEV and Ghoulishness I don't doubt for a second that they would opt for that instead of killing them.

You'd have thought that since their mission is to hoard technology, they'd need people with first hand experience of prewar tech. But then they might hate the fact that there are untrained civilians wandering around who actually understand what it was used for and maybe even how it worked much better than they do. Perhaps they don't want ghouls telling everyone else about what life was like before the war.

Fallout 3 Brotherhood of Steel would probably do something to reverse the FEV and Ghouls, but it sounds more like the Fallout 4 Brotherhood of Steel is all about making sure that dangerous technology, like anything from the Institute, doesn't harm humanity again which is how it was like in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. The Brotherhood of Steel in any main Fallout game except for Fallout 3 has never cared about any Wastelander. Only the pursuit of technology to control it.

I give everyone a healthy benefit of the doubt when I read responses on this forum, because we are talking about a video game after all, but as far as making a case for their particular beliefs, I'm honestly shocked at the justifications people will use to justify genocide. I mean, you guys do realize this is the exact same type of [censored] they said about blacks in the 1800s and Jews in 1940s Germany. Ghouls are people with rotting skin. Those people literally already exist. Smh

If I'm not mistaken, can't ghouls change into ferals under certain circumstances? That would make them a legitimate security threat by any means; a person who can walk around freely in the streets but is at risk of turning into a zombie at any moment is a danger to any human society, so I don't think the Holocaust anology is very accurate here, and I think most groups who aren't as large or secure as the NCR or share their pre-war ideals of democracy and equality are willing to take that risk.

My guess would be good ol' fashion racism.

Ghouls are people, until their brain is turned into a pulp, and they go feral, at which point, they are no better than a rabid dog.

BoS don't hate non-ferals, but they won't throw an excuse if one gets in the crossfire and is killed. They don't want ghouls near them, or in their chapter's, because, eventually, given enough time, most non-feral ghouls will turn feral when their brain rots away. They view them as a ticking bomb just waiting to happen. BoS are cold hearted when it comes to anything, that could stand in their way. And they usually solve problems, by making the problems go away permanently. That includes ghouls, if viewed as a threat to mankind.

Because Ghouls have a habit of becoming near mindless killing machines.

No, they cant go feral at will. However, the argument could be made that sooner or later all ghouls will go feral. Simple because it's a cause of the brain rotting away because of the radiation.

Perhaps I should have put that better, but that's what I meant; that there is always a risk they might 'turn' and become a feral.

As to Ghouls?

They would come under the heading "Abominations Of Technology".

As in, they were created through a negative application of a dangerous Technology.

A good Steelie doesn't go anywhere beyond that.

In Brotherhood Think there is no practical difference between a Nuclear Bomb, a Mutefruit, a Deathclaw, or a Ghoul.

The fact that the Ghoul is sentient is literally irrelevant. It just isn't a thing that can even be acknowledged or considered.

Saying:

"Don't shoot that Ghoul because he's a living, breathing, thinking, feeling person, Atom Damn It!"

Would be the same as saying:

"Don't shoot that Deathclaw because I once saw a shiny red ball and fish swim in the water, Atom Damn It!"

I remember hearing that the west coast BOS didn't like ghouls because they founded dayglow out of the glow and they considered that place to be sort of a holy site, maybe the racism just stuck.

Oh my God. Stop with the Nazi metaphors. They aren't Nazis.

The average BoS soldier does not have the wide experiences and world views of the Sole Survivor. Most if not all of their experiences with ghouls have been from the feral end and they've probably heard stories from the older vets of civilized ghouls who have turned feral. If that was your entire experience with ghouls wouldn't you be a little leery of dealing with them? Even Lyon's enlightened Brotherhood had a policy of "Ok you guys stay in Underworld and away from us."

This isn't to say that the BoS doesn't have its flaws (what I wouldn't GIVE to replace Maxson with somebody a little less jingoistic) but you have to look at things from different points of view without bringing in Godwin's Law.

The Brotherhood has never set up death camps or pogroms to exterminate the Ghouls (although as someone already mentioned if they get caught in the crossfire they wont lose any sleep over it). They have never set about the systematic enslavement of ghouls for their own good or thought to ship them off to some place so they can't make trouble (although I wouldn't want to give them that idea). The arguments are fundamentally flawed.

Why does the BOS hate ghouls?

Because they're ugly and Elder Maxson grew up in the Capital Wasteland where 90% of them are psychopathic monsters.

Can you blame him for his racism in that sort of environment?

It makes perfect sense a Elder raised in the Capital Wasteland and BoS recruited primarily in the Capital Wasteland hates all nonhumans.

In the CW, every nonhuman but a small number are trying to kill you.

Ghouls are abominations. Radiation has changed them into something not even human anymore. Sure some are good people but they'll go feral and try to eat people one day. Even so the BoS don't (as a whole) shoot non feral ghouls on sight. If they keep recruiting wastelanders they might even become more accepting.

Listen. Ghouls can go feral at any time. There is no rhyme or reason to it. Billy the Boy Ghoul has been locked in a fridge for two hundred years of solitude and he hasn't gone feral -- which is a stark difference compared to this little girl: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/439516/Fallout%204/1449066549245.png

You know about the incident in Diamond City that caused all ghouls to get kicked out, right?

One of them went feral and hurt someone. That was why.

Sentient ghouls can be great people. Some of them even likeable. But they are always dangerous, because you never know when they're going to turn.

And I think it's important to note that the Brotherhood knows about Goodneighbor and doesn't attack it. And if you take Danse there, he announces he's taking his safety off incase anything goes wrong; but he never shoots anyone.

It was also an Institute plot to remove Pre-War knowledge.

Ghouls are treasure-troves of civilization and potential resources.

Immortal, unaging workers who can serve as living libraries for the future.

Also, they're immune to radiation and can do job no human can.

I'm not saying they aren't useful. I'm saying that fear of them is well-founded.

TBH, I never viewed the ghoul hatred as racist trait. The way people treat sentient ghouls is honestly closer to the way people treated those infected with leprosy then anything. Ghoulification can potentially happen to anyone in the Fo4 universe (assuming you mutate instead of die from those rads.) Its an irreversible medical condition.

While our modern teacing practices promote PC culture, and acceptance of everyone, and everything, and to celebrate anything that makes you different, fallout is a different world. Humanity is no longer in the unchallenged position of being king of his domain, the world isn't in a state in which you have the liberty to trust everyone at face value, and only distrust them if they do something wrong. Even running across normal people is dangerous, so when you run into ghouls, and super mutants, who are notorious for killing human beings- people have reason not to 'wait and see' attitude.

As I said before, the sentient ghouls kind of bare the same cross as lepers do. Their appearance betrays what ever good intentions they might have. Fear, is fear. Be it fear of becoming a ghoul yourself, or fear of being killed by a ghoul is a powerful motivation to having prejudice. And, nobody has more interaction with feral ghouls, and super mutant, then the brotherhood of steel.

Well said.

Yeah, for years I was bothered by the weird separation of 'ghouls' and 'humans', since ghouls also are humans, albiet extremely sick ones. A subset of humanity...

...then I found a kid in a fridge, 200 years old, with no aging, no psychological effects, immortal without any sources of hydration, glucose OR AIR. That's not even bringing vitamin/mineral deficiency or muscular atrophy into account.

I still insist ghouls are people, but that [censored]'s not normal. Nothing that defies laws of conservation of energy can be considered truly human. I am currently pretending that kid does not even exist, just to reconcile how silly this is.

THEY'RE DIFFERENT--KILL 'EM!

/cue banjo music

Because they are mutant trash, fit for eradication.