We've both had our say in tons of speculation, but in lore, if you don't know for sure, for speculate till everyone beleives you're correct.

If Helseth is able to pull Morrowind out of the civil war intact, without permanent damage to her, then his objectives will come to fruition. However, it isn't the mark of a good leader that brings his country into Civil war without exploring every other course of action. Talk all you want about Abraham Lincoln, he however wasn't a puppet of an outside empire. I don't beleive that Helseth did explore every other possible action, I see rather that he saw civil war as a way to strengthen his own power, at the expense of the lives of many Dunmer, at the expense of the unity of his nation and at the expense of the trust in him and his Throne.




The interests of the Hlaalu, like that of the Temple, are inexplicably tied to the the events of previous eras. The Third Era has passed, and so I guess so will the interests of such oulander dominated structures such as the Hlaalu and it's imperial based ascendancy over the Dunmer.

What you said about Tribunal and it's aftermath is true however, Helseth tried to kill you and so did Almalexia, but you kill Almalexia and not Helseth. Pfft, is all I can say really. Still, you're of the opinion that Helseth is the "best for Morrowind"; this is ultimately, a Cyrodiilic-centric viewpoint. I see, and I contend that a leader "best for Morrowind" would be Morrowind-Centric. A leader is who is able to rule Morrowind without the aid of the empire or it's legions.

Who made the timeline? The TIL does list out-of-game info from devs gathered from forums, but a lot of it is just made by fans. If it was from info besides the PGE3E, that's one thing, but mentioning that an action was "bloody" does not in itself suggest a full-fledged civil war.



That's why Helseth has Dres and Hlaalu.

Yes, true that.

Though still, Dres isn't a warring house. Helseth is Hlaalu, but I've read by lorana that not all Hlaalu sided with him. Helseth must be either extremely dependant on the empire, have some extremely awesome plan, or extremely stupid to pick a fight with the two most belligerant Houses. Indoril and Redoran the two Houses with at least 3000 years of fighting experience behind them. (I think, Indoril anyway.)

Realistically speaking, I think Beth overlooked entirely the fact the Indoril House produced the High Ordinators, most powerful warriors in Morrowind. (Be as it may be, Almalexia dead, they must be still strong.) I doubt such a house could be brought down by something as simple as few slaves going free, or a fight against merchants and mercenaries.

Pardon my skeptisism, but is there actually evidence of a civil war? It sounds more like speculation to me on the TIL people's part.

Lorana with the help of some devs, apparently, wrote a long piece on the civil war. I think civil war was is interesting tool to divine the fate of Morrowind, and it makes sense partially.

I read http://www.silgrad.com/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=1733&sid=8415b3aa8cd0683f5f07cdd3142380b1 a while ago.

This thread seems to have become civil war orientated though, but it doesn't matter.

Sounds like Redoran was tied up fighting the Nords, leaving Indoril at Dres's mercy. They did have a lot of experience in slave-raiding in the treacherous Black Marsh.

And I can't help but wonder what Barenziah was doing to get allies. Or who she was doing.

Yes Crimson, I think that also. Indoril's Ordinators also had a lot of experience at the Red Mountain, too.

But I don't think that Indoril could be very effective since their traditional war leaders are dead, and a lot of them suicided. They may have good warriors. but good tactics win the war. Plus, neither Redoran or Indoril have much of an economic base. And that even said they were waining, and that Hlaalu and Dres were on the rise. And it seemed that Indoril initiated the war. So it doesn't seem that Helseth is an awful leader. In fact, he seems to be doing quite well, with help from Barenziah of course. I respect him even more now.

I think that if Indoril wanted a war, they would get a war. They aren't known for their great negotiation skills. Or taking not getting what the want very well (how many times have the suicided?)

Good warriors are good because they have good tactics. I don't suppose the Tribunal Temple and Indoril House could have fought the Sharmat for so long if they didn't have good tactics. Hlaalu and Dres aren't warrior houses, so how could they good tactics?

Not necesarilly. Good warriors will be good warriors, no matter how awful the leader is. Plus, the Tribunal and Indoril has been led by Vivec and Almalexia for 4000 years. With them dead, it doesn't look so good for them. Plus there are more aspects to war than who can use a sword better. Hlaalu and Dres control the majority of the economic resources, so ... yeah. And with the slave revolts in Indoril and Redoran probably has slowed down their economies.

It's also possible that Indoril was expecting Almalexia to return to them and assure victory. I wonder if this wasn't a traditional civil war, but actually a very big House War.

Whilst the Tribunal have been removed from the world, the foundations of power it set up hasn't. Most people don't know that the Tribunal no longer wield the power they did (as in, no onger exist), but for countless Dunmer the name of the Tribunal is still holy and powerful. It may take many years for a return to the old ways, that however dosent make Indoril and Redoran impotent.

I could make the comment, that with the Emperor and Martin both dead, things look not so good for the empire either... And by extension, Helseth.

(My acrimony to Helseth, if feel, is purely dependant on his imperial dependancy. I would suddenly find myself respecting Helseth, but very surprised if he suddenly decided to take a nationalistic Morrowind-centric route. Which is unlikely. Not unlike other things, eh Bethesda? )

Also, I cannot get my head around how Bethesda balances Dres with anti-slavery. You are saying that Indoril and Redoran may be on the ropes becuase of the abolition, but they were Houses which I noted had a distinct lack of slavery. (I understand that Indoril was not properly represented on Vvardenfell, but by extension, I saw no slaves in the Temples, and none in Redoran holdings) so I don't see how the slavery abolition effected them economically.

Dres however, Hlaalu's ally, must have been broken. Seeing as that their own House capital was the center of slavery in all Morrowind. Hmm.

I think we're all surprised by Dres's choice to side with Helseth. Pretty smart on Helseth's part though; Hlaalu wouldn't stand a chance against three houses at once. And considering the victors, as well as the apparent lack of information over the story, I'd suspect it was a House War. Which would explain why the two richer houses won; they could buy more assassinations.

Maybe Morrowind's position at the start of the Fourth Era is similar to Britain around the fifth century AD. Some Romans left Britain, but many stayed because they had been colonists for four centuries or so. Helseth's side could be seen as similar to Romano-Britons -- instead of a puppet of Empire, he's a local king of an emergent people. The fall of the Empire doesn't have to mean his fall.

From the Wikipedia article on Sub-Roman Britain: "With the higher levels of the military and civil government gone, administration and justice fell to municipal authorities, and small warlords gradually emerged all over Britain, still aspiring to Roman ideals and conventions." See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Roman_Britain#Fate_of_the_Romano-Britons

I think that abolition of slavery was a quite easy for the Dres to sign on to. Slavery in Morrowind will not stop just because a law says so. Officially, slaves would not be called slaves, they would be called things as house-servants, field-workers, or just plain old serfs. Just like feudal "slaves", they might get a little money, but still be bound to places they work for/on in a way or another.

For example, Sweden stopped using slaves when we entered into the Medieval ages (around 1000-1200, we were a couple of years behind the rest of Europe ), but then again we had a kind of workers called "statare" (Kinda like "bordars" or "bond servants" in English, but I do not know if it is a good and reliable translation). They were not directly slaves, but had almost no rights and were only allowed to move to another work place once a year. Not exactly freedom.

So yeah, direct slavery is no more. But as long racism is still common and the beast (and the other man and mer) races have a reputation of being better servants and workers, there's still a lot of money in human/mer/beast trading to be made. Not to mention the underground slave trade that would still have to exist. I mean, most Argonians would not know the Dunmer language, would they? So then they can't complain to anyone, as long as they're kept with other non-Dunmer-speaking people.

Like a Roman dictator sort of...?

I still have a question: Why did Dres make an alliance with Helseth?
Why did they not make an alliance with Redoran and Indoril? House Hlaalu would have been no match for this alliance. I wonder what Helseth could offer Dres, that Indoril and Redoran could not.

Prior to the onset of the Roman Empire, I think so.

Like Sulla, Marius an Julius Caesar?

EDIT:

Nerevar Moon and Star refers to Nerevar as war leader and great khan.



The Real Nerevar refers to him as a warlord.



All in all, he sounds more Gengis Khan than like one of those military dictator's. It is probably true however that he became the leader of the dunmer/chimer by using his army.

The way Ted Peterson wrote it in Loranna's RP, there were a few of the younger Dres nobles such as Dres Vendama who were more progressive than older generations and no longer wanted to be slaveholders. Helseth married Vendama as a political alliance and (through persuasion or veiled threats) convinced the rest of the Dres to fall in line with abolition. The still-respected Barenziah acted as Helseth's representative to the Dres and Hlaalu nobility in convincing them to give up their household troops, for example.

For her part, Vendama grew to care about Helseth when she noted his courage during the civil war; as Ted Peterson wrote him, Helseth led from the front in a number of campaigns.

As we were told in the course of the RP, Helseth has as his aim the destruction of the entire House system, feeling it's keeping Morrowind backward (as had slavery). He's portrayed as ruthless when necessary, as well as having a volcanic temperament, but also intelligent and clear-sighted about the state of Tamriel at the end of the Third Era. For example, Helseth notes that his place is in Morrowind and not chasing after the Ruby Throne.

The Nerevarine was definitely more of a warlord than a diplomat, but I'm not sure that's too far different from those Roman dictators you mentioned.



That depends on how you define 'power,' as saxbass says. Is power measured by force of arms, relative importance to the world? If so, then the Nerevarine is extremely powerful. However, if you define power as free will, as many have done through the ages and is the basis for our current democratic and capitalist society, then the Nerevarine was completely lacking in that department. His/Her choices were either to die and fail, or to survive and change the world on everybody else's terms. Personally I think the Nerevarine got, as dike Vitale would say, a "raw deal."

EDIT: Forgot about the gender thing.

That's why I figure he/she left for Akavir after the events of MW and expansions: he/she could have been curious to see that land for themself (this uncertainty about gender is awkward). Kind of another Richard Francis Burton, a fellow swashbuckler and explorer who was born too late (Victorian in the latter case). The Nerevarine could have been choosing his/her own destiny now.

You probably know that , unlike the Daedric Lords, the Aedra only indirectly interact with Mundus. It is my opinion that when the occasion calls for it the Aedra "empower" or "supercharge" a mortal so that he can interact on the mortal plane on their behalf as it were. And when the hero has done all he was meant to do then the Aedra remove him from the mortal plane.
The Nerevarine was such a mortal, a typical ES hero: They do their thing and then leave Tamriel or Mundus, never to be heard from again. Why didn't the Nerevarine stay and become king? The same reason Mehrunes Dagon cannot create things and the same reason why Sheogorath cannot be sane.
So I sincerely doubt it was the Nerevarine's choice to go to Akavir. Like the Eternal Champion, the Daggerfal Champion and the hero of Battlspire before him his time in Tamriel was up. The
You must also realise that all of these heroes where not normal mortals. They have accomplished in mere days what takes a normal mortal years to do. Had all of these heroes stayed then they would have been gods among men. They would probably be the most powerfull people in Tamriel.
So ,in short: Why didn't the Nerevarine stay and become king?
1. Because he wasn't suppose to. Heroes don't stay and lead. They only make sure that events unfold. Like Zurin Arctus said: Without the hero there is no event.
2. The Nerevarine is a hero and thus has the ability to change the world. He is simply to dangerous.
More than any other type of mortal, an Es hero has the ability to change history.


In my opinion, the Nerevarine was merely a tool used by the Aedra and Azura. And when the tool is no longer needed then it is thrown away.

It could be. I'd add that I don't think the events of MW and expansions took the Nerevarine days. I think it was months at the least. Sorry to nitpick though.

There was the infamous 'MW in 12 minutes' video floating around, but on average it probably did take a few months, even years depending on how the character was played.